phd finance worth it

The Ins and Outs of a PhD in Finance

Landing a PhD in finance – the ultimate undertaking for intrepid souls who yearn to ascend to the highest academic echelons of finance. If you’re serious about being an overseer in this industry, a Doctorate of Philosophy in Finance is what you need! So if wading through tutorials and textbooks isn’t exactly how you want to spend your weekends, we totally understand.

That’s why we’ve broken down in glorious detail all that there is to know about landing a finance doctorate – so no more stressful nights scouring Google for advice on statements of purpose or wondering whether learning Python coding is necessary!

Are You Finance PhD Program Material?

If you’re someone who loves crunching numbers and has a passion for delving deep into financial issues to fully grasp the capital market’s fluctuations, then earning your finance PhD could be just what you need to accelerate your career ! As the financial landscape evolves to include high-speed trading and complex derivative investments, doctoral finance degrees are no longer just for students interested in teaching or research. Instead, these educational programs are offering more opportunities for those looking to take advantage of advancing technologies and modernized markets.

Possessing a finance PhD no longer confines professionals to the traditional lecture hall setting. Instead, this prestigious degree serves as your passport to some of the most innovative jobs available in financial institutions, on Wall Street, and further.

Programs at many universities are typically geared toward the study of theoretical finance and train students to gain a comprehensive understanding of financial markets. These graduate-level degrees allow students to delve deeper into business knowledge, as well as provide a stepping stone for those looking to pursue an academic career such as college professors or researchers. PhD students undertaking this degree are at the forefront of understanding and developing new markets, theories, and ideas. Furthermore, PhD in finance students have a unique opportunity to shape future leaders who will one day be responsible for managing our ever-changing world. After completing this higher-learning finance program, graduates are usually well-prepared to pursue successful careers either in the public sector or as consultants and researchers within administration or business.

What is a Finance PhD Program?

A PhD in Finance is a terminal finance degree for students seeking to specialize in advanced financial topics and theories. This degree program typically requires PhD students to gain expertise in areas such as investments, corporate finance, quantitative methods, theoretical modeling, modern empirical finance, and international finance. Most finance PhD programs involve rigorous coursework and the completion of a dissertation project that demonstrates the student’s knowledge within his or her chosen area. With this degree, graduates are well-prepared to pursue a career as an academic researcher or work as a financial analyst in a variety of settings. Upon completion of the program, students can be confident that they possess the knowledge and skills necessary to succeed in their chosen field.

What Are the areas of specialization for PhD programs in finance?

PhD programs in finance typically offer a variety of specializations, depending on the university. Common areas of specialization for these programs may include corporate finance, financial risk management, international finance, financial market regulation and banking law, real estate investments, corporate governance, quantitative methods, and econometrics. Depending on the program chosen, PhD students may also specialize in areas such as financial engineering, computational finance, empirical asset pricing, and derivatives. PhD candidates in finance may also specialize in a particular country’s banking system or a specific type of financial instrument.

How Long Does It Take to Earn a PhD in Finance?

Getting a PhD in Finance is not an easy task , and it requires considerable dedication and hard work. Generally, the duration of a finance PhD program depends on the institution, department, research topic, and degree requirements. On average, completing a PhD in Finance may take four to five years. This includes coursework, passing qualifying exams, conducting independent research, and writing the dissertation. In some cases, doctoral students may have to take additional courses or complete an internship to fulfill the requirements for graduation. Additionally, some universities require that their doctoral students attend and present at conferences or publish scholarly articles in peer-reviewed journals. All these add up to the total time it takes to complete doctoral studies. Ultimately, the length of time it takes to complete a PhD in Finance depends on the student’s level of commitment and dedication.

What Jobs Can You Get with A PhD in Finance?

Pursuing this type of finance degree can provide you with the theoretical and practical knowledge necessary to become an expert in your chosen field. With a PhD, you will gain the skills and expertise to succeed in a variety of finance-related roles. You’ll be able to analyze financial data, develop financial models, and advise both individuals and organizations about the best strategies to achieve their goals. You will also gain valuable research experience that can help you make valuable contributions to the field of finance. With a PhD in finance, you can enjoy a broad range of career options in the banking, finance, and accounting industries. These can include roles such as financial analyst, portfolio manager, investment banker, risk manager, or financial consultant. The possibilities are virtually limitless; you could be a leader and innovator in the field of finance, or simply use your skills to help others make wise financial decisions.

How Difficult Is It to Get Admitted into a Good Program?

Pursuing a PhD in finance can be an incredibly challenging endeavor. The amount of knowledge required and the rigorous academic requirements to gain admission to a top-tier finance program are daunting. Because of the rigorous admissions process, competition for admission is intense. Applicants must demonstrate a comprehensive understanding of financial concepts, strong quantitative and analytical skills, as well as an ability to think critically and independently. Prospective PhD students must also demonstrate a strong commitment to academic research, as well as the ability to develop and complete original research projects. Those who are successful in gaining admission to a PhD in finance program will reap the rewards of a top-tier education and will be well-prepared for an exciting career in the field of finance.

What Does the Application Process Look Like?

A Ph.D. in Finance is a terminal degree, meaning the highest level of education available in that field. It requires years of study and rigorous coursework to earn. To be eligible, students must have completed a bachelor’s degree with a major in finance or a related field and have acquired a minimum cumulative grade point average of 3.3. Most programs require that applicants submit GRE scores , letters of recommendation, and professional experience.

Generally, doctorate programs require four to five years of in-depth assessment and coursework as well as the writing of a dissertation; therefore, it stands to reason that admission into such programs will be highly selective. During the application process, admissions committees formed by finance faculty strive to guarantee that a student will do whatever is necessary for them to be successful in their program. This can take some time because universities are searching for worthy candidates with knowledge of their field and impressive academic credentials.

To be considered as an applicant, the following materials and resources are needed:

• submitting your paper or online application form
• a statement of purpose
• covering the applicable fees
• providing official transcripts from any educational institutions attended.
• well-crafted letters of recommendation from former employers and instructors that are familiar with his/her academic accomplishments.
• a scholarly writing sample accompanied by official GRE or GMAT scores.

After you’ve submitted your documents, the end step of the application process is usually an interview with a member of the admissions committee. Each business school is different and thus has specific admission requirements; while one program may need candidates to go through an interview , another might only require providing a writing sample portfolio.

Is A PhD in Finance Worth It?

The answer to this question depends on your individual career goals and ambitions.A PhD in finance can open doors to a variety of interesting and lucrative careers in the financial sector. It can also provide you with an opportunity to advance your research and teaching skills, and it may even lead to a higher salary. However, it takes a substantial amount of time and effort to complete a PhD program, so you should weigh the pros and cons carefully before deciding if it is the right move for you.

What Are The Top 10 PhD in finance programs in the world?

The top 10 PhD in Finance programs in the world are highly sought-after for their rigorous curriculum, finance faculty, and international recognition. The most distinguished programs can be found at institutions such as Harvard University, the Yale School of Management, Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), Stanford, London Business School, the Wharton School of Business , Cornell University’s Johnson Graduate School of Management, the Kellogg School of Management, and the University of Chicago Booth School of Business. These esteemed programs provide students with the opportunity to explore cutting-edge finance topics from a global perspective. With access to world-renowned faculty members, highly competitive internships, and outstanding research facilities, graduates from these top 10 PhD in Finance programs are equipped with the knowledge and skills necessary to become leaders in the field. Pursuing a PhD in finance from any of these schools will give students a unique advantage as they enter the corporate world or pursue academic positions.

How Competitive Is It to Get Admitted Into a Top PhD in Finance Program?

PhD in finance programs are highly competitive and rigorous, requiring a strong knowledge base and advanced research skills to succeed. Many of the top universities offering PhD in finance programs have extremely select criteria for admissions, including GRE scores, academic achievement, professional experience, and recommendations from faculty members. The competition for admission is intense; most universities will only admit a handful of students each year.

How Can You Increase Your Chances of Getting Admitted into a Phd in Finance Program?

Completing a doctorate in finance is an ambitious endeavor, but it’s not impossible. To make yourself a more competitive applicant when applying to a doctoral program in this field, it’s important to focus on building your qualifications and doing meaningful research prior to applying. Start by obtaining a high GPA during your undergraduate education and impressing your professors through meaningful research and participation in course discussions. Then, gain relevant experience with internships or other professional opportunities that relate to the field of finance. From there, build a strong portfolio of academic achievements such as journals, published articles, presentations, and awards. Once you have established yourself as an ambitious researcher with a commitment to the finance field, you are ready to apply for a PhD program.

Working with a graduate school admission consultant prior to applying to a PhD program can also increase your chances of getting accepted by providing you with a solid foundation on how to build a portfolio that impresses admissions committees. A specialized consultant can help you make sure all your application materials are in order, as well as provide insight into the admissions process and what makes an applicant stand out—and get noticed. Make sure to check out our PhD application services or schedule a free consultation to find out how we can help you reach your career goals!

With a Master’s from McGill University and a Ph.D. from New York University, Dr. Philippe Barr is the founder of The Admit Lab . As a tenure-track professor, Dr. Barr spent a decade teaching and serving on several graduate admission committees at UNC-Chapel Hill before turning to full-time consulting. With more than seven years of experience as a graduate school admissions consultant, Dr. Barr has stewarded the candidate journey across multiple master’s and Ph.D. programs and helped hundreds of students get admitted to top-tier graduate programs all over the world .

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The 10 Best PhD Programs in Finance

In essence, finance is the study of economics and the claims on resources. The best PhD programs in finance help you develop professionally so you can make difficult decisions around fund allocation, financial planning, and corporate financial management. This qualification will also equip you for a career in teaching or research at top universities.

Which of the 10 best finance PhDs is best for you?

Read on to learn everything you need to know.

Table of Contents

Why Get a Doctorate in Finance?

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), finance managerial professionals have an average salary of $131,710  per year, and jobs are estimated to grow by 17%  from 2020 to 2030. This is much more than the average across all occupations. With a PhD in finance, you may work as a finance manager or even become a CEO of a large corporation.

Jobs and Salaries for Doctors of Finance

After earning a PhD in finance, you can find well-paid jobs as a professor or in various corporate finance roles.

Here are some of the most common finance professions with the average annual salaries for each:

• Financial Manager ( $96,255 )
• Financial Analyst ( $63,295 )
• Finance Professor ( $73,776 )
• Chief Financial Officer ( $140,694 )
• Investment Analyst ( $67,730 )

Read More:   The Highest Paying PhD Programs

What’s the average cost of a phd program in finance.

The tuition for a PhD in finance can vary depending on the university, with public institutions generally being much more affordable than private ones.

Across all schools, the average tuition is around $30,000 per year.

However, on top of this, you need to factor in other expenses, which could add up to another $30,000 a year. Some top universities offer full funding, including tuition and a stipend for all students who are successfully admitted to the program.

Read Next: The Average Cost of a Master’s Degree in Finance

Top finance phd programs and schools, stanford university, graduate school of business.

PhD in Finance

Stanford University is one of the most prestigious business schools in the world. Its PhD in finance programs has an emphasis on theoretical modeling and empirical testing of financial and economic principles.

• Courses include: Financial markets, empirical asset pricing, macroeconomics, and financial markets.
• Duration: 5 years
• Tuition : Full funding
• Financial aid: Research & teaching assistantship, grants, outside employment, and outside support.
• Delivery: On-campus
• Acceptance rate: 5%
• Location: Stanford, California

The University of Pennsylvania, The Wharton School

The University of Pennsylvania’s renowned Wharton School of Business is home to faculty who are well-known in the field of business research. The school boasts a low student-faculty ratio in an atmosphere that allows you to work with faculty members as peers. This doctor of finance program emphasizes subjects like asset pricing, corporate finance, and portfolio management. This helps students become experts in research and teaching in these areas.

• Courses include: Topics in asset pricing, financial economics, and international finance.
• Credits: 18 courses
• Financial aid: Fellowships, grants, student employment, health insurance, stipend, and loans.
• Acceptance rate: 9%
• Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

The University of Chicago, Booth School of Business

Booth School of Business is a major center for finance education because its faculty includes Eugene F. Fama, Nobel laureate and the father of modern empirical finance. This finance doctoral degree has an option for a joint PhD in collaboration with the university’s economics department.

• Courses: Financial economics, financial markets in the macroeconomy, and behavioral finance.
• Tuition : Refer tuition page
• Financial aid: Grants, stipends, health insurance, scholarships, fellowships, teaching assistantships, research assistantships, and loans.
• Acceptance rate: 7%
• Location: Chicago, Illinois

The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, Gies College of Business

The University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign is one of the best places for studying and conducting research in finance. Its finance research faculty was ranked #4  in the UTD Top 100 Business School Research Rankings between 2016-2019. In this PhD in finance program, students can take the qualifying examination at the end of the first year and, if successful. They’ll be able to start their research project earlier and complete the degree sooner.

• Courses include: Empirical analysis in finance, corporate finance, and statistics & probability.
• Duration: 4-5 years
• Financial aid: Full tuition waiver, stipends, scholarships, grants, student employment, and loans.
• Acceptance rate: 63%
• Location: Champaign, Illinois

Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Sloan School of Management

The Sloan School is one of the top research centers in the world, which aims to transform students into experts who can handle real-world problems in a wide range of spheres, from business and healthcare to climate change. This PhD program in finance gives students the flexibility to choose between a wide range of electives and even study some courses at Harvard.

• Courses include: Current research in financial economics, statistics/applied econometrics, and corporate finance.
• Duration: 6 years
• Financial aid: Full tuition, stipend, teaching assistantships, research assistantships, health insurance, fellowships, scholarships, and loans.
• Location: Cambridge, Massachusetts

Northwestern University, Kellogg School of Management

The Kellogg School of Management allows students to conduct independent research under the supervision of faculty who’ve made significant contributions to the field and have earned numerous prestigious awards. This doctorate of finance program’s admission process has a dual application option. You can also apply to the Economics PhD simultaneously, so if you are not selected for the finance program, you may be considered for economics.

• Courses include: Econometrics, corporate finance, and asset pricing.
• Duration: 5.5 years
• Financial aid: Tuition scholarship, stipends, health insurance, moving allowance, and subsidies.
• Location: Evanston, Illinois

The University of California Berkeley, Haas School of Business

The Haas School of Business in Berkeley is an innovative institution that questions the status quo, takes intelligent risks, and accepts sensible failures in its path to progress. This finance PhD program offers students opportunities to learn about cutting-edge research from faculty from around the world.

• Courses include: Corporate finance theory, stochastic calculus, and applications of psychology & economics.
• Tuition : Refer cost page
• Financial aid: Fellowships, grants, tuition allowance, stipends, teaching assistantships, and research assistantships.
• Acceptance rate: 17%
• Location: Berkeley, California

The University of Texas at San Antonio, Alvarez College of Business

The Alvarez College of Business is one of the forty largest business schools in the USA. It follows a comprehensive and practical approach to education that allows students to apply the knowledge they gain directly in the workplace. This PhD in finance encourages students to do collaborative research with the faculty, which helps them publish their own academic papers before they even complete the program.

• Courses include: Corporate finance, international financial markets, and microeconomic theory.
• Credits: 84 (post-bachelors)
• Financial aid: Scholarships, grants, work-study, teaching assistantships, research assistantships, research fellowships, and loans.
• Acceptance rate: 84%
• Location: San Antonio, Texas

Liberty University, School of Business

Doctor of Business Administration (DBA) in Finance

Liberty University is a non-profit institution among the top five online schools in the USA and has been offering fixed tuition fees for the past seven years. This is one of the best PhD in Finance programs you can do completely online. It aims to prepare students to address issues in business finance through research, best practices, and relevant literature.

• Courses: Managerial Finance, Investments & Derivatives, Business Valuation, etc.
• Credits: 60
• Duration: 3 years average
• Tuition : $595 per credit
• Financial aid: Grants, scholarships, work-study, veteran benefits, and loans.
• Delivery: Online
• Acceptance rate: 50%
• Location: Lynchburg, Virginia

Northcentral University

PhD in Business Administration (PhD-BA) – Finance Management

Northcentral University was founded with the objective of offering flexible, fully-online programs to working professionals around the world. This doctorate degree in finance online is flexible and allows you to design your own schedule. You will also get one-on-one personal mentoring from qualified faculty.

• Courses include: Business financial systems, business statistics, and business leadership & strategy.
• Duration: 84 months average
• Tuition: $1,105 per credit
• Financial aid: Grants, scholarships, and military scholarships.
• Acceptance rate: NA
• Location: Scottsdale, Arizona

Things To Consider When Choosing a Finance PhD Program

The right PhD program for you is a very personal decision and will depend on several individual factors.

However, these general questions will help you to make the right choice:

• Is the university properly accredited?
• Does the university conduct innovative and cutting-edge research?
• Are there renowned faculty members who you’ll want to work with?
• Do they offer subjects or specializations that match your career goals?
• What is the school’s placement history?
• What are the tuition fees, costs, and options for scholarships and financial aid?
• Does the program offer online study options?

It’s also important to consider if you want to pursue a career in academia or work in organizations as a senior finance professional. A PhD degree will generally set you up for a career in research or academia, while a DBA is more suited to a career in business or government.

Preparing for a Finance Doctorate Program

It’s important to start preparing early if you want to be selected for one of the best finance PhD programs.

These handy tips can help you put your best foot forward:

• Research the requirements of the best universities offering PhD in finance degrees, including pre-requisite subjects and qualifying grades. Keep these in mind when completing your bachelor’s or master’s degree.
• Understand your strengths and weaknesses in relation to the program’s requirements. Work on your weaknesses and continue to hone relevant skills.
• Read extensively in the field and keep up-to-date on regional and global developments.
• Join communities of finance professionals to build your network and be exposed to the latest knowledge in the discipline.

Skills You Gain from Earning a PhD in Finance

The most important skills you learn as a doctor of finance include:

• Communication skills, including writing and presentation skills
• Data analytical skills
• Economics and accounting skills
• Critical thinking skills
• Mathematical skills
• Analytical software skills
• Management and leadership skills
• Problem-solving skills

PhD Programs in Finance FAQs

How long does a phd in finance take.

PhD programs in finance usually take between three and eight years to complete.

Is It Worth Getting a PhD in Finance?

A PhD in Finance is a qualification that’s in high demand today. It is a terminal degree and can help you get top-level jobs with lucrative salaries in corporate or large organizations.

How Much Can You Make With a PhD in Finance?

With a finance doctorate, you can expect to earn a salary anywhere from around $45,000 to $150,000, depending on your experience, role, and the organization you work for. According to the BLS, the average salary for finance PhD holders is $131,710 .

What Do You Need To Get a PhD in Finance?

The admissions requirements vary depending on the program, but you’ll typically need a bachelor’s or master’s degree in finance. The programs can take three to eight years of coursework and research.

To apply, you’ll usually need to submit:

• Application
• Academic resume
• Academic transcripts
• Recommendation letters
• GRE or GMAT score
• Personal essay

Final Thoughts

With a doctorate in finance, you can build a rewarding career in academia, research, or the business sector. Like any doctorate, these programs ask for dedication and hard work. By planning early, you’ll set yourself up to pursue one of the best PhD programs in finance.

For more on how to build your career in the field, take a look at our guides to the best master’s degree in finance , the highest paying PhDs , and fully-funded PhD programs .

Lisa Marlin

Lisa is a full-time writer specializing in career advice, further education, and personal development. She works from all over the world, and when not writing you'll find her hiking, practicing yoga, or enjoying a glass of Malbec.

• Lisa Marlin https://blog.thegradcafe.com/author/lisa-marlin/ ACBSP Vs AACSB: Which Business Program Accreditations is Better?
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The main benefits of having a PhD if you want a job in finance

If you're a student who wants to go into financial services, you may be wondering whether it's worth spending the extra time and money to get a PhD.

During the financial crisis two or three years ago, I would have unequivocally advised staying in school. Layoffs, downsizing, and hiring freezes made it a very difficult environment to land a good job. However, the tide has (or at least, had ) turned and many financial institutions are gong back to their normal hiring modes.

So should you do it? Well...

Independently of the economic environment, the decision to do a PhD often comes down to the opportunity cost of spending another three years' in education. Personally, I believe a PhD is financially worthwhile: starting compensation packages for PhDs are generally higher than for non-PhDs. However, I strongly advocate participating in as many internships as possible to gain experience, network, and possibly even land some job offers before you finish your degree.

I also believe that a PhD really does separate you from the rest of the pack. Employers are generally keen to hire PhDs for a variety of reasons. These are the main three:

(1) A PhD proves that you can do independent research This is a huge positive. Even those with the best grades do not necessarily have the ability to conduct independent research. Having a PhD is an excellent indication that you can start and finish a large project with minimal supervision - a quality employers strongly desire.

(2) A PhD topic can demonstrate competence in a particular field In-depth academic research is probably the closest thing someone can get to experience without actual experience (though I reemphasize the importance of internships!). Moreover, if your thesis is closely related to the career path you are planning on, then this also shows some interest and initiative that a prospective employer will appreciate.

(3) Perception There is no doubt that many people believe that PhDs are smarter. Finance attracts all types of people but PhDs generally attract more respect. Admittedly, there are many people who could have achieved a PhD but chose not to. However, there are also others who might not have been up for the challenge. Getting a PhD removes all doubt.

Aaron Brask is a former banker at JPMorgan and Barclays Capital with a PhD in mathematical finance. He's also the author of the Wall Street Primer .

I'm currently doing diploma in fundamental of financial service and I wanted to do accounting science but now since I've started I fell like I have to finish because if I would change it would be a waste of money and time. So I thought a Ph.D. In financ will do but reading your comments and other sources if no longer want to do it. Please help me to know which job in finance that is a bit more like CA and please know that your comments can build or destroy someone's life. Thank you.

This article is really rather misleading for anyone who stumbles upon it. A PhD in Finance is a HUGE committment, and not something that can be decided easially. PhD programs in general, even for lower (<100 ranked) schools, have acceptance rates of less than 5%, and those who do get in generally have an extremely rigorous undergraduate with courses in upper level math, statistics and computer science.A PhD normally takes 5 (five) years to complete, and is entirely dedicated to learning to research ideas.

If you are interested in working in something like M&A, being a financial analyst, or other careers like these a PhD is going to be a terrible fit for you and is absolutely not worth your time and effort. If you are interested however in being an options trader, in risk management, or being a quant, a PhD is no longer something that sets you apart, but is something expected and required. That being said however, many quant jobs have starting salaries posted at 250k+, and many business professors make 175k+, so regardless you can do fine for yourself with a PhD, but you need to do it for the right reasons.

Surely it depends what you want to do. A professional qualification like CFA, Actuarial Science, ACCA etc prove that you have the drive to work and study as opposed to the relatively less stressful phd environment which gives you free reign. I've worked with numerous phd's who were very smart and researching say physics or stats hypotheses and were very good in an academic environment, but when it came to dealing with people and content in the workplace fell down quite badly. Clearly if you're talking about a quant type of role, you would want a specialised stats phd however.

Doing a Ph.D restricts your career in research / education sector. Industry would prefer a professional degree in accounting and finance OR at the minimum - an MBA

Doing a PhD is a complete waste of time if you want to work in Finance. I would rather spend 3 years gaining experience in the field, stepping up the corporate ladder and working on a more relevant certification like the CFA.

Few PhD's know early on that they'll end up in Finance. Those who don't usually are scientists who wake up one day and realize there are no high-paying jobs in their fields. They then drift to becoming quantitative analyst or developers, and are stepped over by everyone else in the firm.

The arguments you put forward only serve on point: landing a good first job; which is not worth spending 3 years in school. In my opinion, the only reason a PhD would serve you is if you already have experience in the industry, find a hard relevant problem and go back to the research lab to solve it.

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The field of finance covers the economics of claims on resources. Financial economists study the valuation of these claims, the markets in which they are traded, and their use by individuals, corporations, and the society at large.

At Stanford GSB, finance faculty and doctoral students study a wide spectrum of financial topics, including the pricing and valuation of assets, the behavior of financial markets, and the structure and financial decision-making of firms and financial intermediaries.

Investigation of issues arising in these areas is pursued both through the development of theoretical models and through the empirical testing of those models. The PhD Program is designed to give students a good understanding of the methods used in theoretical modeling and empirical testing.

Preparation and Qualifications

All students are required to have, or to obtain during their first year, mathematical skills at the level of one year of calculus and one course each in linear algebra and matrix theory, theory of probability, and statistical inference.

Students are expected to have familiarity with programming and data analysis using tools and software such as MATLAB, Stata, R, Python, or Julia, or to correct any deficiencies before enrolling at Stanford.

The PhD program in finance involves a great deal of very hard work, and there is keen competition for admission. For both these reasons, the faculty is selective in offering admission. Prospective applicants must have an aptitude for quantitative work and be at ease in handling formal models. A strong background in economics and college-level mathematics is desirable.

It is particularly important to realize that a PhD in finance is not a higher-level MBA, but an advanced, academically oriented degree in financial economics, with a reflective and analytical, rather than operational, viewpoint.

Faculty in Finance

Anat r. admati, juliane begenau, jonathan b. berk, greg buchak, antonio coppola, peter m. demarzo, darrell duffie, steven grenadier, benjamin hébert, arvind krishnamurthy, hanno lustig, matteo maggiori, paul pfleiderer, joshua d. rauh, claudia robles-garcia, ilya a. strebulaev, vikrant vig, jeffrey zwiebel, emeriti faculty, robert l. joss, george g.c. parker, myron s. scholes, william f. sharpe, kenneth j. singleton, james c. van horne, recent publications in finance, behavioral responses to state income taxation of high earners: evidence from california, beyond the balance sheet model of banking: implications for bank regulation and monetary policy, fee variation in private equity, recent insights by stanford business, nine stories to get you through tax season, “geoeconomics” explains how countries flex their financial muscles, car loans are a hidden driver of the ride-sharing economy.

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Earn your MBA and SM in engineering with this transformative two-year program.

Combine an international MBA with a deep dive into management science. A special opportunity for partner and affiliate schools only.

A doctoral program that produces outstanding scholars who are leading in their fields of research.

Bring a business perspective to your technical and quantitative expertise with a bachelor’s degree in management, business analytics, or finance.

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PhD Program in Finance

2023-24 curriculum outline.

The MIT Sloan Finance Group offers a doctoral program specialization in Finance for students interested in research careers in academic finance. The requirements of the program may be loosely divided into five categories: coursework, the Finance Seminar, the general examination, the research paper, and the dissertation. Attendance at the weekly Finance Seminar is mandatory in the second year and beyond and is encouraged in the first year.  During the first two years, students are engaged primarily in coursework, taking both required and elective courses in preparation for their general examination at the end of the second year.  Students are required to complete a research paper by the end of their fifth semester, present it in front of the faculty committee and receive a passing grade.  After that, students are required to find a formal thesis advisor and form a thesis committee by the end of their eighth semester. The Thesis Committee should consist of at least one tenured faculty from the MIT Sloan Finance Group.

Required Courses

The following set of required courses is designed to furnish each student with a sound and well-rounded understanding of the theoretical and empirical foundations of finance, as well as the tools necessary to make original contributions in each of these areas. Finance PhD courses (15.470, 15.471, 15.472, 15.473, 15.474) in which the student does not receive a grade of B or higher must be retaken.

First Year - Summer

Math Camp begins on the second Monday in August. 

First Year - Fall Semester

14.121/14.122 Micro Theory I/II

14.451/14.452 Macro Theory I/II ( strongly recommended)

14.380/14.381 — Statistics/Applied Econometrics

15.470 — Asset Pricing

First Year - Spring Semester

14.123/14.124 Micro Theory III/IV

14.453/14.454 Macro Theory III/IV (strongly recommended)

14.382 – Econometrics

15.471 – Corporate Finance

Second Year - Fall Semester

15.472 — Advanced Asset Pricing

  14.384 — Time-Series Analysis or  14.385 — Nonlinear Econometric Analysis  (Enrolled students receive a one-semester waiver from attending the Finance Seminar due to a scheduling conflict)

15.475 — Current Research in Financial Economics

Second Year - Spring Semester

15.473 — Advanced Corporate Finance

 15.474 — Current Topics in Finance (strongly encouraged to take multiple times)

15.475 — Current Research in Financial Economics

Recommended Elective Courses

Beyond these required courses, students are expected to enroll in elective courses determined by their primary area of interest. There are two informal “tracks” in Financial Economics: Corporate Finance and Asset Pricing. Recommended electives are designed to deepen the student's grasp of material that will be central to the writing of his/her dissertation. Students also have the opportunity to take courses at Harvard University. There is no formal requirement to select one track or another, and students are free to take any of the electives.

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Phd in finance: requirements, salary, jobs, & career growth, what is phd in finance.

A PhD in Finance is a doctoral-level academic degree program in finance that focuses on advanced research and theoretical study. It is intended for people who want to work in academia, research, or advanced positions in the financial industry.

A PhD in Finance usually entails extensive training in finance, economics, statistics, and research methods. It also necessitates the completion of a substantial research project, frequently in the form of a dissertation, in which the student conducts original research and contributes to the body of knowledge in finance.

A PhD in Finance program’s curriculum may include financial theory, investments, corporate finance, financial econometrics, risk management, asset pricing, derivatives, and other specific fields of finance. Quantitative research approaches, such as econometrics, statistical modeling, and data analysis, may also be emphasized in the program.

How much money do people make with a PhD in Finance?

Individuals with a PhD in Finance can earn a wide range of salaries depending on criteria such as their years of experience, location, company, and job duties. PhD holders in Finance typically earn better income than people with less schooling in the industry, as their postgraduate degree denotes knowledge and specialization.

PhD holders in Finance may work in academia as professors or researchers in universities or business schools. According to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), the median annual income for postsecondary business teachers (including finance professors) was $83,960 in May 2020.

Salaries, on the other hand, can range from $50,000 to far over $150,000 or more, depending on factors such as rank, experience, and location.

Individuals with a PhD in Finance may work in the private sector as financial analysts, quantitative researchers, risk managers, investment managers, or consultants, among other positions. Salaries in the private sector can vary greatly depending on job title, level of responsibility, and business size and location.

According to Glassdoor data, the average annual pay for a financial analyst with a PhD in Finance in the United States in 2021 was roughly $102,000, while a quantitative researcher with a PhD in Finance may earn $150,000 or more per year.

What is expected job growth with PhD in Finance?

As businesses and organizations rely on financial skills to manage their operations, investments, and risk, the field of finance is projected to evolve and flourish.

Finance experts with extensive education and specialized knowledge, such as those with a PhD in Finance, may be in high demand in academic and research contexts, as well as professions requiring advanced quantitative and analytical skills.

According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), employment of postsecondary teachers, particularly business teachers (such as finance professors), is expected to expand 9 percent from 2020 to 2030, faster than the national average. The need for higher education, as well as the ongoing demand for research and education, are driving this predicted growth.

What can you do with a PhD in Finance?

A PhD in Finance can lead to a variety of professional prospects in a variety of fields. Individuals with a PhD in Finance may pursue the following professional paths:

1. Academia: Many PhDs in Finance go on to become professors or researchers at universities or business schools. They may teach finance classes, conduct research, publish scholarly articles, and contribute to the progress of financial knowledge through their research findings. In addition, they may mentor and advise students, oversee dissertations, and attend academic conferences and seminars.

2. Research: PhD holders in Finance may work in research-related positions in university institutions, government agencies, or private research enterprises. They may perform novel research on financial markets, investments, risk management, corporate finance, or other finance-related topics. Their discoveries can help to build financial theories, models, and regulations, and they may have practical implications in the financial business.

3. Financial Services: PhD holders in Finance may work as financial analysts, quantitative researchers, risk managers, or investment managers in the financial services industry. They may evaluate financial data, design investment plans, manage risks, and provide strategic financial advise to customers or organizations using their sophisticated knowledge of finance and mathematical skills.

4. Consulting: PhD holders in Finance may operate as financial consultants, providing clients with specific experience in areas such as investment management, risk management, financial analysis, or corporate finance. They may operate in consulting firms, financial advisory firms, or specialist consulting practices within bigger corporations, advising clients on strategic financial matters.

5. Policymaking and government: Finance PhD holders may work in government agencies, international organizations, or policy-making institutions, providing knowledge in financial policy, regulations, or economic analysis. They may be involved in the development of financial policies, the assessment of the impact of financial legislation, or the provision of strategic financial advice to government agencies or policymakers.

6. Corporate Finance: PhD holders in Finance may work in corporations, particularly in financial strategy, capital budgeting, risk management, or financial analysis areas. They may offer financial advice in strategic decision-making, financial planning and analysis, investment analysis, or corporate valuation, assisting firms in improving their financial performance.

7. Entrepreneurship and Innovation: PhD holders in Finance may apply their financial skills to entrepreneurial initiatives or professions requiring innovation. They may work at start-ups, venture capital companies, or innovation-focused organizations, where they evaluate business models, assess investment opportunities, manage financial risks, and provide strategic financial advise to assist entrepreneurial activities.

What are the requirements for a PhD in Finance?

The particular criteria for a PhD in Finance can differ depending on the university or educational institution that offers the program, as well as the country or location in which the program is located. However, some common PhD in Finance requirements often include:

1. Educational Qualifications: Most PhD programs in Finance require applicants to have a solid educational background, often a master’s degree in a relevant topic such as finance, economics, business, or a comparable quantitative study. Some schools may accept applicants with a bachelor’s degree, however this is uncommon and sometimes necessitates additional requirements or experience.

2. Graduate Admissions examinations: Applicants to PhD programs in Finance may be required to submit results from standardized graduate admissions examinations such as the Graduate Record Examination (GRE) or the Graduate Management Admission Test (GMAT). (GMAT). These assessments measure applicants’ abilities in areas such as verbal reasoning, quantitative reasoning, and analytical writing.

3. Research Proposal: Because the PhD in Finance program is research-intensive, applicants may be required to submit a research proposal explaining their intended study topic or research interests. Typically, this proposal comprises a summary of the research issue, study aims, methodology, and predicted contributions to the subject of finance.

4. Academic Transcripts: Typically, applicants must produce official transcripts from their previous undergraduate and graduate degrees, demonstrating their academic record and achievements.

5. Letters of Recommendation: Applicants may be expected to present letters of recommendation from academic or professional sources who can speak to their abilities, skills, and prospects for success in a PhD program.

6. Statement of Purpose: Applicants are often required to provide a statement of purpose explaining their rationale for obtaining a PhD in Finance, as well as their professional objectives and research interests. This statement assists the admissions committee in determining the applicant’s fit with the program and their likelihood of success.

7. English Language Proficiency: Many PhD programs in Finance may demand confirmation of English language proficiency for applicants whose native language is not English, such as scores from the Test of English as a Foreign Language (TOEFL) or the International English Language Testing System. (IELTS).

8. Interviews: As part of the admissions process, several PhD programs in Finance may ask applicants to engage in an interview. This interview may take place in person, over the phone, or via video conference, and it will assess the applicant’s research interests, academic abilities, and enthusiasm for pursuing a PhD in Finance.

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How long does it take to get a phd in finance.

The time it takes to earn a PhD in Finance depends on a number of factors, including the program structure, the student’s progress, and the individual’s dedication to their study. However, it usually takes 4 to 5 years of full-time study to get a PhD in Finance.

The completion of a PhD in Finance can be divided into many stages, which may differ based on the program and the individual’s progress:

1. Coursework: During the first year of a PhD in Finance program, students often do coursework to provide a solid foundation in finance theory, research methods, and other related fields. Coursework time varies, but it normally takes 1 to 2 years to finish.

2. Comprehensive Exams: Some PhD programs in Finance require students to complete comprehensive exams after completing courses to demonstrate their knowledge and expertise in the discipline. Depending on the program’s requirements, comprehensive exam preparation and completion can take several months to a year.

3. Research Proposal: After passing the comprehensive tests, students usually work on writing and defending a research proposal outlining their desired study topic, methodology, and expected contributions to the discipline. The development and defense of the research proposal might take several months to a year or more, depending on the complexity of the research and the student’s progress.

4. Dissertation Research: Following the successful defense of the research proposal, students begin their dissertation research, which is the capstone of their PhD program. The dissertation research stage’s time might vary greatly based on the research topic, methodology, data gathering, and analysis needs. The dissertation research and writing process normally takes two to three years or more.

5. Dissertation Defense: After completing their dissertation, students usually defend their research findings in front of a committee of faculty members. The time it takes to schedule and complete the dissertation defense can vary, although it normally takes several months to a year or more, depending on committee member availability and other practical concerns.

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Do you need a masters in finance to get a phd in finance.

A Master’s degree in Finance or a similar discipline is not always required for entrance to a PhD program in Finance. However, admission requirements may differ based on the program and institution.

Some PhD programs in Finance may require applicants to have a Master’s degree in a relevant discipline, whereas others may allow applicants with only a Bachelor’s degree provided they have additional qualifications or experience.

A Master’s degree in Finance or a closely related discipline can provide a solid foundation in finance theory, research methodologies, and mathematical skills, which can be useful for PhD study in Finance.

It can also reflect a greater degree of academic preparation and may assist applicants in standing out during the difficult admissions process.

Some PhD programs in Finance, however, may provide a combined Master’s and PhD program in which students acquire a Master’s degree while pursuing their PhD. In such instances, admittance may not require a separate Master’s degree.

What are the Best PhD in Finance Degree programs?

1. massachusetts institute of technology (mit) – phd in finance 2. stanford university – phd in finance 3. university of chicago – phd in finance 4. columbia university – phd in finance and economics 5. new york university (nyu) – phd in finance 6. university of pennsylvania (wharton) – phd in finance 7. harvard university – phd in business economics (with a concentration in finance) 8. university of california, berkeley (haas) – phd in finance 9. princeton university – phd in finance 10. northwestern university (kellogg) – phd in finance, leave a comment cancel reply.

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• Dissertation Areas and Joint PhD Programs
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PhD Joint Program in Financial Economics

The financial economics phd program leverages the strengths of two renowned programs: the phd program in finance and the university of chicago’s kenneth c. griffin department of economics..

Core economics training is critical for students doing research in financial economics, and advances in financial economics have important implications for other areas of economics.

As a student in our Joint Program in Financial Economics , you’ll work with thought leaders in both economics and finance and follow your research interests wherever they lead. Leveraging courses and resources in the Finance dissertation area at Chicago Booth and the university’s Kenneth C. Griffin Department of Economics , you’ll build a foundation for research at the intersection of finance and economics.

Our Distinguished Finance and Economics Faculty

As a student in the joint program, you’ll work with professors and classmates in both the Department of Economics and the Stevens Doctoral Program in Finance at Chicago Booth. Faculty bring research expertise in a wide range of fields and serve as mentors to PhD students.

Finance Faculty

Francesca Bastianello

Assistant Professor of Finance and Liew Family Junior Faculty Fellow, Fama Faculty Fellow

Emanuele Colonnelli

Associate Professor of Finance and MV Advisors Faculty Fellow

George M. Constantinides

Leo Melamed Professor of Finance

Douglas W. Diamond

Merton H. Miller Distinguished Service Professor of Finance

Eugene F. Fama

Robert R. McCormick Distinguished Service Professor of Finance

Niels Gormsen

Neubauer Family Associate Professor of Finance and Fama Faculty Fellow

Lars Hansen

David Rockefeller Distinguished Service Professor The University of Chicago Departments of Economics, Statistics and the Booth School of Business

John C. Heaton

Joseph L. Gidwitz Professor of Finance

Steven Neil Kaplan

Neubauer Family Distinguished Service Professor of Entrepreneurship and Finance and Kessenich E.P. Faculty Director at the Polsky Center for Entrepreneurship and Innovation

Anil Kashyap

Stevens Distinguished Service Professor of Economics and Finance

Ralph S.J. Koijen

AQR Capital Management Distinguished Service Professor of Finance and Fama Faculty Fellow

Associate Professor of Finance and Fama Faculty Fellow

Stefan Nagel

Fama Family Distinguished Service Professor of Finance

Scott Nelson

Assistant Professor of Finance and Cohen and Keenoy Faculty Scholar

Pascal Noel

Neubauer Family Associate Professor of Finance and Kathryn and Grant Swick Faculty Scholar

Lubos Pastor

Charles P. McQuaid Distinguished Service Professor of Finance and Robert King Steel Faculty Fellow

Raghuram G. Rajan

Katherine Dusak Miller Distinguished Service Professor of Finance

Bruce Lindsay Distinguished Service Professor of Economics and Public Policy

Pietro Veronesi

Deputy Dean for Faculty and Chicago Board of Trade Professor of Finance

Robert W. Vishny

Myron S. Scholes Distinguished Service Professor of Finance and Neubauer Faculty Director of the Davis Center

Michael Weber

Associate Professor of Finance

Constantine Yannelis

Associate Professor of Finance and FMC Faculty Scholar

Anthony Lee Zhang

Assistant Professor of Finance

Luigi Zingales

Robert C. McCormack Distinguished Service Professor of Entrepreneurship and Finance

Department of Economics Faculty

Fernando Alvarez

Ali Hortacsu

Harald Uhlig

Kenneth C. Griffin Department of Economics

Alumni success.

Our PhD graduates lead successful careers  in prestigious academic settings, such as the Stanford Graduate School of Business and London Business School, as well as in leading financial institutions, including the International Monetary Fund.

Jane (Jian) Li, PhD '21

Assistant Professor of Business, Finance Division Columbia Business School, Columbia University Jane's research lies at the intersection of macroeconomics and finance. She is particularly interested in how financial intermediaries affect the real economy and how different types of financial institutions can contribute to financial instability. Her dissertation area is in financial economics.

A Network of Support

Doctoral students at Booth have access to the resources of several interdisciplinary research centers that offer funding for student work, host workshops and conferences, and foster a strong research community.

Becker Friedman Institute for Economics Bringing together researchers from the entire Chicago economics community, the Becker Friedman Institute fosters novel insights on the world’s most difficult economic problems.

Center for Research in Security Prices CRSP maintains one of the world’s largest and most comprehensive stock market databases. Since 1963, it has been a valued resource for businesses, government, and scholars.

Fama-Miller Center for Research in Finance Tasked with pushing the boundaries of research in finance, the Fama-Miller Center provides institutional structure and support for researchers in the field.

George J. Stigler Center for the Study of the Economy and the State Dedicated to examining issues at the intersection of politics and the economy, the Stigler Center supports research by PhD students and others who are interested in the political, economic, and cultural obstacles to better working markets.

The Kent A. Clark Center for Global Markets Enhancing the understanding of business and financial market globalization, the Clark Center for Global Markets positions Chicago Booth as a thought leader in the understanding of ever-changing markets and improves financial and economic decision-making around the world.

Macro Finance Research Program The Macro Finance Research Program (MFR) expands our understanding of how financial markets affect the economy as a whole and, conversely, how the macroeconomy influences financial markets. It does so by bringing together a community of elite and emerging scholars and with common ambitions to tackle these important challenges. One of the important ambitions of this program is to provide intellectual and research support for advanced students in the joint PhD program in financial economics.

Rustandy Center for Social Sector Innovation Committed to making the world more equitable and sustainable, the Rustandy Center works to solve complex social and environmental problems. The center’s student support includes fellowships, research funding, and networking opportunities.

Spotlight on Research

Chicago Booth Review regularly highlights the research findings of Booth faculty and PhD students in financial economics.

Line of Inquiry: Amir Sufi on Household Debt and Business Cycles

Chicago Booth’s Amir Sufi explains how the financial sector's willingness to extend credit to households helps fuel booms and busts.

How is IT Spending Changing Banking?

According to researchers Zhiguo He (previous Booth prof.), Sheila Jiang and Douglas Xu (both Booth PhD graduates), and Xiao Yin, IT investment figures prominently in banking activities.

How Can We Calculate the US's Greatest Fortunes?

Chicago Booth’s Eric Zwick and his coauthors have devised a new way to gauge how much wealth the ultrawealthy have and what it’s composed of. Their results can help update and sharpen the picture of inequality in the US.

The PhD Experience at Booth

Maryam Farboodi, PhD ’14, talks about how the Booth faculty challenged her to focus her research on issues that are applicable to the current financial sector.

Video Transcript

Maryam Farboodi, ’14: 00:02 My work lies in the intersection of finance and economics, trying to apply theoretical models to think about broader questions in big data technology. I was doing extremely theoretical research and I was always interested in doing stuff which are more related to the real world, which led me to join Chicago econ and then the Joint Financial Economics Program at Chicago Booth.

Maryam Farboodi, ’14: 00:29 The faculty really helped me focus my research on issues that are relevant to the current financial climate. A lot of current policy focuses on how financial institutions intermediate for each other and that has been the focus of my research. The faculty at Chicago Booth challenged me in making sure that the insight is applicable to the current financial sector.

Maryam Farboodi, ’14: 00:52 What is really, really special about Booth is the really close interaction between the faculty here and the econ department. Chicago Booth, in particular the joint program, is the best place you can be in. It provides an environment where you can interact with people who are extremely deep in both finance and economics and not lose track of important issues. Chicago Booth and Econ has really being like home to me. That's the feeling that any student can get if they really engage themselves with faculty. 

Current Financial Economics Students

Students in Chicago Booth’s Joint Program in Financial Economics focus their PhD research on a vast array of issues, from state-government borrowing costs to wealth inequality to climate policy. They go on to positions at leading academic institutions and global financial organizations.

Current Students

Monica Barbosa

Filippo Cavaleri

Sixun Chang

Manav Chaudhary

Shirui (Suri) Chen Leo Aparisi De Lannoy

Laurenz De Rosa

Joanna Harris Jacob Hartwig

Lewei He Tanvi Jindal

Jingoo Kwon

Federico Mainardi

Benjamin Marrow

Sangmin (Simon) Oh

Michael Varley

Jingtao Zheng

See a list of the current students in our Finance PhD Program .

How to Apply

To join the Joint Program in Financial Economics, you will need to be admitted to both the doctoral program in the Department of Economics and the PhD Program in Finance at Chicago Booth. However, you need only apply to one or the other program. Learn more about applying to Chicago Booth or to the Department of Economics .

Program Requirements

Learn more about the Joint Program in Financial Economics at Chicago Booth on the website or by referencing the joint program-specific guidebook below. See Joint Program-Specific Guidebook

General Program Expectations and Requirements

The Stevens Program at Booth is a full-time program. Students generally complete the majority of coursework and examination requirements within the first two years of studies and begin work on their dissertation during the third year. For details, see General Examination Requirements by Area in the Stevens Program Guidebook below.

Download the 2023-2024 Guidebook!

Is a PhD worth it now in 2023? [the data]

Deciding to pursue a PhD is a decision not to be taken lightly. Whether or not it is worth it for you depends on a number of circumstances such as your career goals, financial stability, stage in life, support networks, interest in the subject, ability to self-motivate and so much more.

Arguably, for most people, a PhD is not worth it. If you want to enter academia you have no other option than to do a PhD. However, there is often a much better return on investment from other educational pathways such as master’s, professional degrees and work experience.

For some people, the act of getting a PhD is more than for financial return or reward. They have a deep connection with the subject and want to research it. They are willing to put up with the sacrifices required to do a PhD because of their drive for a particular research field.

 These types of researchers are relatively rare.

This article will go through everything you need to know about whether or not PhD is worth it in 2023 and the most important things you should consider before launching into your PhD application process.

Should I Get A PhD?

Deciding whether or not to pursue a doctoral degree is a huge life decision. It can easily take up to 7 years to get a PhD in some countries.

This is a time when others are laying the foundations of their life and have a job starting to build up experience in their professional field.

Doing a PhD delays adult life for most young PhD students.

PhD regret is a real thing and in my youtube video, I share all of the things you need to be aware of when making the decision to do a PhD.

Study referenced in the video: click here.

A doctorate requires an immense amount of work and dedication. And therefore you need to be absolutely certain it is the right decision for you.

If you have a passion for:

• teaching at a university,
• public service,
• or your job has pay scales that can only be reached with a PhD

then getting a PhD may be a perfect choice.

On the other hand, if you are looking for career advancement opportunities or increased earning potential, then it might not be right for you.

There are other options such as a Masters, graduate diploma, or work experience that could potentially open more career advancement opportunities.

If you want to know more about PhDs check out my other articles:

• How long does it take to get a PhD? Complete a PhD quickly
• How long does it take to get a PhD part time? Complete a PhD on your own time. 
• How difficult is it to get a PhD? The real doctorate struggles.

Is getting your PhD worth it for your career?

A PhD is certainly worth it for many careers, especially those in academia, research and education.

A PhD provides you with the skills to:

• perform academic research independently,
• write for peer-reviewed publications,
• present findings to peers
• manage a multi-year project with multiple stakeholders
• teach undergraduate classes
• and much more

These skills are incredibly valuable and well compensated in some careers .

It is also important to consider that a PhD can also help you develop specialized skills and knowledge that are highly valued in certain industries, such as data science and analytics.

A PhD can open up doors to new opportunities that undergraduate and masters degrees do not.

However, a PhD doesn’t necessarily mean that you are going to be compensated better in the workplace with a higher salary.

Let’s take a look at whether or not a PhD is worth it for your finances.

Is a PhD worth it for your finances? Whether a PhD will boost your bank balance. 

Whether or not a PhD is worth it for your finances highly depends on what you’re using your PhD for.

In my experience, a PhD does not guarantee higher wages upon graduation. In fact, it is often a better return on your investment to get a master’s degree and a couple of years of experience in a career to maximise your earning potential.

This is backed up with data.

You can see in the graph below that, on average, the maximum earnings someone can make is with a Masters or professional degree.

Across all of the different subject areas, it is often better to get a professional degree that is directly related to your career rather than pursue a PhD.

It takes many more years to get a PhD and quite bluntly – it does not make financial sense to do a PhD.

For many, the stipend associated with being a PhD student can help to pay for grad school and other expenses during their studies but there is a huge shortfall compared to the wage if you had started a job.

Even if you don’t go into academia, many companies recognize the value of having a PhD but may not offer a financial benefit.

Why is a PhD a bad idea for most people?

Arguably, a PhD is a bad idea for most people because it requires a tremendous amount of time, effort and money to complete, and there are very few job opportunities in academia available.

Also, as we have seen above, it is quite often not financially sensible to pursue a PhD.

Many students embark on a PhD program with the expectation that they will get an academic job upon completion of their studies, but this is not guaranteed. And, is in fact, the exception.

The competition for postdocs and other academic jobs is high and there is no guarantee of job security once you get one.

Having an undergraduate degree already makes you eligible for many jobs outside academia so getting a PhD may not be the best use of your time or resources.

For all these reasons, many people opt out of getting a PhD and pursue alternative career pathways.

What are the Risks of Getting a PhD?

Earning a PhD can be costly both in terms of time and money, and it may take several years to complete a successful doctoral program.

Also, there are many other risks and costs associated with getting a PhD that are not talked about.

These include:

• return on investment
• opportunity cost
• reduced earning potential in early years
• reduce networking with professionals
• and many more.

In my YouTube video below I talk about whether or not get a PhD is worth the effort:

Furthermore, there are risks associated with getting a PhD. One risk is that the long timeframe of earning a PhD may lead to burnout or fatigue for the PhD student.

Another risk is the fact that the value of a particular Ph.D may fluctuate over time, so it’s important to consider whether or not the Ph.D will be worth it in the long run.

There’s always a risk that humanity’s understanding of certain fields could change suddenly, rendering an individual’s doctoral degree obsolete or less valuable than anticipated.

For these reasons and more, individuals considering getting a PhD should evaluate their options carefully before making such an important commitment.

Have you thought realistically about your job prospects?

Some people can get very excited thought of doing a PhD. However, this excitement is incredibly short-lived once they realize that there are no job prospects upon graduation.

When considering job prospects, it is important to think realistically about the opportunities available for when you graduate.

For many PhD students, the dream is to secure a tenure-track position in academia. However, this can be difficult with so many PhDs vying for limited positions in universities and colleges.

Therefore, it is important to consider other options outside of academia as well. This isn’t something that many young PhD students want to hear – but it is where most of them will end up.

Many PhDs have found success in fields such as healthcare, finance, and technology.

Additionally, some PhDs have even gone into non-traditional fields such as teaching English abroad or starting their own business.

I chose the pack of starting my own business and have had a much more fulfilling life and satisfaction from that than I ever did during my years in academia.

No matter what path you choose after completing your PhD, it’s important to remember that there are many opportunities out there for PhD students – both inside and outside of academia.

They may not be obvious at the beginning – just keep searching into you find one that excites you.

PhD Degree Alternatives

There are many alternatives to getting a PhD that can still lead to successful career paths in different fields.

Sure, they may not be as prestigious. They may not even be particularly exciting – but for your career, they offer a much better return on your investment both in terms of time and money.

 We have seen, above, that it is actually much better to settle into a career with a Masters and then upskill with various professional degrees until you reach your desired earning potential.

It PhD is not a guaranteed ticket to a higher-paying job – building up credibility and experience in a particular role is.

There are many other degree alternatives including:

• graduate diplomas
• professional degrees
• vocational courses
• a much more

that can help boost your earning potential.

However, there truly is no alternative to a PhD if you want hard-core research experience and to open up the career pathway to lecturing and research.

For people that want to enter academia I often say that they should have a fallback plan so that when their ideas of becoming a researcher fall away they have a comfortable and realistic backup plan that they would enjoy.

You’ll be amazed how many people don’t know what they would do if they won’t in academia. In today’s highly competitive world that is not good enough.

It is important to explore all of one’s options before committing to pursuing a PhD degree so that they can make an informed decision about their future career path.

Wrapping up

This article has been through everything you need to know about whether or not a PhD is worth it now and all of the important questions you need to ask yourself.

You need to look at your career goals, the financial gains you expect to make with a PhD and what other opportunities open up upon graduation.

However, there are some extreme costs that come with letting a PhD including reduced earning potential for many years, stressing and anxiety, reduction in professional experience, and many others which will need to be addressed if you decide to go down the postgraduate PhD route.

Whatever you decide I hope that this article has provided you with enough formation to help make a decision one way or another.

Dr Andrew Stapleton has a Masters and PhD in Chemistry from the UK and Australia. He has many years of research experience and has worked as a Postdoctoral Fellow and Associate at a number of Universities. Although having secured funding for his own research, he left academia to help others with his YouTube channel all about the inner workings of academia and how to make it work for you.

Thank you for visiting Academia Insider.

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Is it Worth Getting a Ph.D. in Finance?

A Ph.D. in finance opens up students to many potential job opportunities, but there are some serious drawbacks to getting a Ph.D. in finance. The decision to acquire a Ph.D. in finance is something very personal, and it may not be the right fit for all individuals.

Not for Love of Making Money

Many people believe that if they get a Ph.D. they will make more money than they otherwise could with an MBA or similar graduate degree. The first thing to keep in mind is that getting a Ph.D. does not entitle you to a job that an MBA or similar finance or business degree does not. You can still become a high-ranking executive, with a six-figure salary, whether you have a Ph.D. or a master’s.

Remember that the term Ph.D. literally means “Doctor of Philosophy.” Philosophy is the act of thinking, theorizing and researching. That is what a Ph.D. especially prepares candidates to do, according to an online article . There are, therefore positions within companies that are suited to a Ph.D. because they involve research surrounding how money flows and works. However, from a money-making standpoint, there is little that a Ph.D. can do that an MBA cannot.

Those considering a Ph.D., therefore, should do so not for a love of making more money or a higher wage, but for the love of acquiring knowledge, doing research and sharing that information with others. The work done by those with a Ph.D. is valuable to business executives and economics experts, but that doesn’t mean that they will offer you substantially more money or a better position for it. The fact is that many Ph.D. graduates work in academia, not business. That said, there are many options for graduates to explore, as detailed in this article .

The Cost of a Ph.D.

There are two significant costs of a Ph.D. that must be considered. The first is obviously money. College is an expensive endeavor, and many people do not do paid work while acquiring advanced degrees. Some Ph.D. candidates get their schooling paid for by various institutions because the work they do getting the Ph.D. will then be provided to these organizations for free, and they consider that information worth the cost of tuition. Without such sponsoring, gaining a Ph.D. can be a financially daunting affair for those not already of comfortable wealth.

The second, no less significant cost of a Ph.D. is time. Gaining a Ph.D. requires, on average, an additional four or more years of study after a graduate degree. This means that at grand total, a Ph.D. graduate has invested four years of undergraduate tuition, another two or three years of graduate education and another four or more years of doctoral education. Unless they took a break to get work experience in-between, they will be at least six or more years behind the average graduate in job experience. While getting advanced degrees does generally mean higher pay, it often lags behind someone who has been climbing the career ladder for the last six years while the Ph.D. graduate was toiling away in school.

The decision to pursue a Ph.D. in finance, or any other field, should not be taken lightly. A Ph.D. candidate must have a clear vision of what they want to do for the rest of their life. They will be sinking over a decade of life and hundreds of thousands of dollars into education, and they will need to be sure it is worth it to them.

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Why Do a Ph.D in Finance?

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As a sophomore undergrad, how can I best position myself to get into a good Ph.D. program? I plan on doing a masters beforehand, and I was wondering if it would be in my best interest to seek out work experience prior to applying to Ph.D. programs or if I should just do research and work towards publications at my University (which is a top 25 school).

What are the requirements for a Top 25 Ph.D. in Finance?

Getting into a top Ph.D. in Finance program is extremely competitive. A firm foundation in math is essential as is economics. To set yourself apart, a letter from a well-published professor is going to give you an edge. If you can get yourself an internship with this professor, even better.

Any and all experience you can get prior to your Ph.D. application will be useful. The most effective approach is getting published in a top finance publication, however with the limited research knowledge and experience received in an undergrad, this can prove difficult.

Finance related work experience and internships are valuable as they display your dedication and work ethic but they are not likely going to be enough for your Ph.D. application. What they will do is give you a better of an idea what a career in finance would be like and if you would prefer to be in a bank/corporate setting or academia post-graduation.

Finance Ph.D. Ranking

Take a look at some of the top-ranked business schools according to Bloomberg

teenagepirate: Top finance Ph.Ds are more competitive than any entry-level job within banking. A publication always helps. Research experience helps more than internships but competitive internships (top name bank etc.) have value because they're a signal that you're capable of working hard. Admission to the top 25 schools is essentially a lottery. Average GMAT for Chicago's finance Ph.D. was 760+ for instance. Work hard, do your math courses, do your economic courses, get good recommendation letters from well-published finance profs (try to do research internships with them). Independent research won't get you very far because as an undergrad, you're just not trained well enough to do it to a high level.

What do Finance Ph.Ds do after Graduating?

A Ph.D. in Finance will set you up for a position at a quantitive trading desk. They land fewer jobs with I-banks and more often work behind the scenes and are generally less involved directly with clients as their reputation tends to be that they are more academic and less business oriented. What it does set you up for, however, is a career in academia as a professor or researcher.

Schumacher: I-banks generally have economists and market strategists (not sure who gets these jobs and how) that generally most of these people carry PhDs. The trend at most quant trading desks seems to lean more towards the physics, mathematics, statistics PhDs. It's a great degree to have if you want to break into trading. To be honest, a Finance Ph.D. is basically only beneficial to people who want to become college professors, which has its perks (ridiculously short hours, low-stress environment, and great pay assuming you can get a job at a half-decent college).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnn4Ny67DY4

UES802: I was talking a bit ago with an MD at an MM I-bank and someone asked him a similar question. He responded with, while anything is possible, attaining a Ph.D. in Finance won't really help your chances to get into I-banking all that much. He personally felt that people who go this route tend to get too used to the culture and routine that is involved with school, and are better equipped to become a professor than to attempt to enter the business world.

Academic-based positions can be extremely lucrative and appealing due to the great benefits and hours but if you’re keen to work with clients and in the front end of things, it would probably be more book education than you need.

Read More about Finance Ph.Ds at Wall Street Oasis

• Ph.D. Yah or Nah?
• Finance Ph.D. vs. Finance MBA
• Any Value to a Summer Internship before doing a Ph.DProgram?

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It's fairly difficult. Princeton admits 1-2 PhDs each year. Same with the other top ten schools.

My advice is to write a paper that gets published in a Big Three journal (Journal of Finance, Journal of Financial Economics, Review of Financial Studies.) If you can do that, you should get in just about anywhere.

IlliniProgrammer: It's fairly difficult. Princeton admits 1-2 PhDs each year. Same with the other top ten schools. My advice is to write a paper that gets published in a Big Three journal (Journal of Finance, Journal of Financial Economics, Review of Financial Studies.) If you can do that, you should get in just about anywhere.

Wow, are non-ivies (say, top 30 schools) a little easier? How about a publication in a good health economics journal? (I hope to get more involved in healthcare finance research)

Would my undergrad summers best be utilized by doing research or internships at F500 or investment banks ?

Top finance PhDs are more competitive than any entry level job within banking. A publication always helps. Research experience helps more than internships but competitive internships (top name bank etc.) have value because they're a signal that you're capable of working hard.

Admission to the top 25 schools is essentially a lottery. Average GMAT for Chicago's finance PhD was 760+ for instance. Work hard, do your math courses, do your econ courses, get good recommendation letters from well published finance profs (try to do research internships with them). Independent research won't get you very far because as an undergrad, you're just not trained well enough to do it to a high level.

Finally, don't post here, post on urch.com and read econjobrumors.com . People here are a little bit retarded and think a PhD is something you do if you don't get a job and you want to be lazy. A finance assistant prof (ie straight out of PhD) at a top 25 school will get $200k+ for 9 months a year and a professorial lifestyle. Hell, even PhD students get a $30k stipend (and can raise external financing for the program). It's not as much as you get paid in industry, but it's pretty excellent when you consider the lifestyle and the fact that you don't have to wade through as much bullcrap in your career.

teenagepirate: IlliniProgrammer: It's fairly difficult. Princeton admits 1-2 PhDs each year. Same with the other top ten schools. My advice is to write a paper that gets published in a Big Three journal (Journal of Finance, Journal of Financial Economics, Review of Financial Studies.) If you can do that, you should get in just about anywhere.

How are the results for attending a program outside the top 30 or even top 50? Does it get increasingly tough to get tenure and industry opportunities?

Also, I was on academic probation during my freshman year due to poor grades. If I bounce back to about a 3.7 GPA or so by time of application, would it come back to bite me?

Thank you for your response, it helped greatly!

Between Harrison Hong, Markus Brunnermeier, and Ben Bernanke, we have our fair share of research on the financial markets.

Everyone has access to WRDS; everyone can crank out an analysis and figure out if there's something publishable in about a week's time; and the papers are examined blindly. This is something any 21 year old with Excel and WRDS can do; it's not exactly like this is 1978 and some 18 year old is trying to invent the PC in his parents' California garage. (Oh wait.)

Ask a tough question for which there is financial or economic data to answer it with. Then find an appropriate journal to submit your analysis to. They don't really consider the fact that you're an undergrad until the decision to publish has already been made.

Get something published- just make sure you have something really interesting. The JoF's submission fee is something like $250 and they have a twelve week turnaround time.

just u are, idiots

just ure retarded

The market is very good, solid 6 figure salaries for starting associate professors. Pretty much everything you read about getting into economics PhD programs can be cross applied to finance PhD programs. The most improtant things are going to be:

• Math background: math stats, probability, differential equations, and real analysis would be very good.
• Recs from profs
• Experience working as a research assistant, writing a senior thesis, etc. These are the sorts of things that make for good recs.
• A non disqualifying GRE quant score (as close to 800 as possible).

Also look into econ PhDs where you can concentrate in financial economics. They won't care about interning at a F500 or whatever, it's irrelevant.

(the reason I mentioned Etula there in the last paragraph is not because he's a retard or anything but because his asset pricing paper was mentioned on Falkenblog yesterday http://falkenblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/is-broker-dealer-leverage-elusiv… and I really wasn't convinced by it yet this guy is an "asset pricing expert" in QIS at GSAM )

teenagepirate: (the reason I mentioned Etula there in the last paragraph is not because he's a retard or anything but because his asset pricing paper was mentioned on Falkenblog yesterday http://falkenblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/is-broker-dealer-leverage-elusiv… and I really wasn't convinced by it yet this guy is an "asset pricing expert" in QIS at GSAM )

How difficult is getting into an accounting phd program? What undergrad/ MS concentrations would set me up best for this and/or finance?

jackd9999: teenagepirate: (the reason I mentioned Etula there in the last paragraph is not because he's a retard or anything but because his asset pricing paper was mentioned on Falkenblog yesterday http://falkenblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/is-broker-dealer-leverage-elusiv… and I really wasn't convinced by it yet this guy is an "asset pricing expert" in QIS at GSAM )

As for your undergrad, it's not super important. Undergraduate accounting tends to be way more practical than what research is. Your best bets are math, econ, statistics and finance, with a few accounting courses so that you understand the very basic concepts. After those come engineering, physics etc. Essentially, you just need to be able to show that you can handle the very quantitative courseload. Often, you'll need to have done a few basic courses in micro-economics and finance, but this is not a hard requirement at all schools. Some schools (Stanford comes to mind, MIT too I think) also require some programming proficiency so it makes sense to do a bit of compsci as well.

And are you serious about "everyone can crank out an analysis and figure out it there's something publishable"? It takes Hong, Brunnermeier etc. a year or so to go from idea to publication and that's with an army of research assistants and co-authors. It's virtually impossible for an undergrad to know the established methodologies for a given field, to know whether their question is relevant and to be able to write the paper in the right way to get their point across in a way that's acceptable to the editors. An undergrad is not going to get a top 3 pub in econ/acc/fin, they may get their dissertation in if their supervisor puts a lot of work into it, but I've never seen a BSc diss make it, only masters level ones. And, as I said, the supervisor usually helps a lot with that.

If you have a trading strategy that can generate a big enough sharpe ratio, it's not too tough to get it published in the JQFA. And if it's big enough and obvious enough to raise a lot of doubt about the EMH or CAPM , you're now talking about a big three publication.

You can vet a trading strategy in about three days in industry. It took me a week to come up with something that can consistently generate a Sharpe of 2.

Most of the quants who held Finance PhDs I worked with in industry were published multiple times in grad school. Seriously, it's not all that tough. And it doesn't really matter your school's ranking- it matters what you, personally get published. Attending a school with a brand name can also be helpful, but you're only the sum of your work product.

Bottom line: If you want into grad school, get something published .

IlliniProgrammer: And are you serious about "everyone can crank out an analysis and figure out it there's something publishable"? It takes Hong, Brunnermeier etc. a year or so to go from idea to publication and that's with an army of research assistants and co-authors. It's virtually impossible for an undergrad to know the established methodologies for a given field, to know whether their question is relevant and to be able to write the paper in the right way to get their point across in a way that's acceptable to the editors. An undergrad is not going to get a top 3 pub in econ/acc/fin, they may get their dissertation in if their supervisor puts a lot of work into it, but I've never seen a BSc diss make it, only masters level ones. And, as I said, the supervisor usually helps a lot with that.

You can vet a trading strategy in about three days in industry; probably less. It took me a week to come up with something that can consistently generate a Sharpe of 2.

Just randomly picked 3 top 10 schools that showed CVs of their current students / job market candidates. Most of them have no publications, a few have one paper with a supervisor or something. You don't get a top 3 publication for figuring out a trading rule, you don't even get a JPM or FAJ for that. No one cares, it's probably the result of data mining or ignoring something like liquidity/ trading costs etc..

And what do you mean by quant? You mean someone working derivs, or a quant as in someone who specializes in quantitative investing? Basically mathematical finance vs. asset pricing? Because in mathematics and physics it's a lot easier to publish than in finance, articles are much shorter and take less time to get through.

If getting a top journal publication was easy, leading professors wouldn't travel half-way around the world to present papers at seminars and get comments on them.

teenagepirate: IlliniProgrammer: And are you serious about "everyone can crank out an analysis and figure out it there's something publishable"? It takes Hong, Brunnermeier etc. a year or so to go from idea to publication and that's with an army of research assistants and co-authors. It's virtually impossible for an undergrad to know the established methodologies for a given field, to know whether their question is relevant and to be able to write the paper in the right way to get their point across in a way that's acceptable to the editors. An undergrad is not going to get a top 3 pub in econ/acc/fin, they may get their dissertation in if their supervisor puts a lot of work into it, but I've never seen a BSc diss make it, only masters level ones. And, as I said, the supervisor usually helps a lot with that.

Uncovering Hedge Fund Skill from The Portfolio Holdings They Hide This paper studies the “confidential holdings” of institutional investors, especially hedge funds, where the quarter‐end equity holdings are disclosed with a delay through amendments to Form 13F and are usually excluded from the standard databases. Funds managing large risky portfolios with nonconventional strategies seek confidentiality more frequently. Stocks in these holdings are disproportionately associated with information‐sensitive events or share characteristics indicating greater information asymmetry. Confidential holdings exhibit superior performance up to 12 months, and tend to take longer to build. Together the evidence supports private information and the associated price impact as the dominant motives for confidentiality. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jofi.12012/pdf

Ok, so someone had the neat idea of running a regression of hedge fund performance against the percentage of portfolios that they disclose through amendments. Woohoo! Journal of Finance! Oh, wow, it was probably mostly done by a grad student too (Yuehua Tang).

As for the strategies, of course you have to take bids and asks. These are reported in nearly every market database. You also have to be conservative in estimating market impact for larger strategies- the fact is that you may not be able to execute some strategy with millions of dollars off of a bid or ask of 500 shares, but there are a number of models commercially available for empirically guessing how much such a transaction would move the market.

If you (1) have a valid arbitrage strategy that WILL make money and (2) use it to make a convincing argument about financial theory, you pretty much have a publication in either the Big Three or one of the next few journals.

Of course, sometimes the best strategies and ideas never get published.

1.) Come up with a theory about the markets. Ideally one that relies on data that wasn't available 20 years ago. (This may rule out theories on cash equities) 2.) Design a strategy to test that theory. 3.) Figure out whether the results show anything. Ideally, try to have a natural experiment with a control and a test. 4.) Figure out how interesting and meaningful those results are. 5.) Clean it up and try to publish it.

You should be able to cycle through 1-4 in 40 hours of work. 5 will take another ~80 hours before you submit to your first journal. Also it's wise to submit to some repository so your idea doesn't get scooped.

I just noticed you also asked about the UK in your first post. So I'll mention that briefly as well.

Basically, in the UK, LBS is basically an American school and is the only UK school that ranks really well globally. LSE has a good name in industry but they're very large and not that respected internationally in "academic finance" or accounting, and apparently treat their PhD students quite poorly. LSE , Warwick, Imperial, Cass, Oxford and Cambridge are pretty much what you would treat as the second tier of schools in the UK after LBS with each having some sort of problem: Cambridge's faculty of finance is tiny and very junior but decent, at the other end of the spectrum you have LSE and Cass which are really big but with a lot of mediocre people and bought talent. Oxford had like 3 people go to this year's AFA meeting which was quite impressive for a faculty as small as theirs. For the UK and finance, LBS is the way to go and should that fail, then LSE and Oxford. But there are many many schools that are as good as LSE and Oxford which are not impossible to get into in the US so at that point it becomes a point of how much funding you can get and how well the research interests match yours. For accounting, I have no idea really because it seems like accounting research in Europe and accounting in the US are done completely differently and European researchers are just unable to get good publications into the top US journals but dominate publishing in AOS. I don't know enough to rank the schools but LBS's department of accounting seems fairly good by international standards (faculty seem to publish in the top US journals), even though it's quite small.

As for if you have a valid arbitrage strategy, lots of people think they do and try to publish them but get rejected. Why? Because most likely they're ignoring something... A lot of professionals think they've got a winning strategy but if they exposed that strategy to the kind of scrutiny that academic ideas get they'd realize just how flawed it actually is.

There have been a couple of arbitrages published in recent years but in reality they're quite rare.. If you have a valid arbitrage strategy that will make money, chances are that either you can use it to make a lot of money (doesn't happen often in practice) or you can publish it (doesn't happen often either).

This isn't that complicated, though.

Anyhow, OP, I strongly recommend http://www.urch.com/forums/phd-business/ instead of here. Here you just have too few people who know anything about the process and too many people who will answer without knowing anything for this forum to be useful (not referring to anyone on this thread but this whole forum)

PhD in Finance vs. Working ( Originally Posted: 10/28/2012 )

I'm early into a PhD program in Finance at a 10-20 ranked b-school. I'm not so sure about going the academia route if I do complete my degree, and find myself more excited about building a career as a researcher in the AM industry. Considering the options of (1) finishing the PhD and going into AM as a researcher, or (2) trying to find a buy or sell side research job and quitting the program (I already have a Master's), does anyone out there with experience have any advice or comparisons for these two paths? Is the ceiling higher with the PhD, and is it worth the 5 year investment?

Geez, finance PhD programs are insanely competitive. If you're in a good program, I would stay where you are.

Depending on your location, you should be able to find part-time work/ internships / consulting jobs while you are working on your degree. If you come out with strong work experience and a good thesis, just about any buyside firm will at least give you a look.

I assume you have a stipend? Then the only cost is opportunity. In this market, staying in a PhD program isn't a terrible idea. You could always quit if you get an offer from a top fund - but in the meantime, you are building your resume (and hopefully getting work experience).

I do have a stipend, but unfortunately my program won't allow me to take outside work while enrolled in the program. So my options for building work experience are pretty limited.

A phD will definitely get you noticed but if you don't have any relevant experience, summer internship , etc, then you will be just like every other PhD who is having a career crises. The problem with a masters at a non-feeder school is that there are many people with them (MFE, etc.) so your resume won't stand out too much. I would say the ceiling is not higher with a PhD but it will help you get noticed by top shops/ AM firms.

If you don't want to do quant/systematic strategies then the value proposition of a PhD diminishes. But again, a PhD will get you noticed in any shop that isn't straight fundamental.

I would think that if you're at a top school then many of your professors consult for the industry. you should ask them about their experience and then also see if they can help you get a summer internship or help them on a project. that should give you a better idea if you think it's worth quitting your program.

Since you're pursuing a PhD in Finance, you're most likely going to be offered positions in quantitative finance research(derivatives pricing). It isn't that bad of a place to be. If you don't want to complete your thesis, then by all means start applying to all the major companies.

You're most likely in a small predicament. I'm guessing you don't know how to program the common languages used like c, c++, java, and python which would rule you out of many quantitative research positions. Given that, you'll be in a more competitive pool competing with students straight out of undergrad for research positions. Since you have a masters, many company HR reps will say you deserve higher pay. But then you've got to think about the department budget and who's running it and what they're willing to sacrifice. In a sense, you run the risk of being overqualified for a research position but under-qualified for another(quant finance research).

With that said, i'd recommend you get through the remainder years and complete your phd.

If you really want to go into industry, 2 years of programming will do you well, C++, Java, and Python at the minimum.

I would have to disagree with one of the above posters. Do not tell your professors that you're planning to go into industry. As you already know, the whole point of a PhD is to prepare you to be an academic researcher. You'll most likely face some opposition when planning your thesis if you tell your professors that your headed to industry.

These are some links which should be of help if you're looking for an industry career post PhD

http://www.econjobrumors.com/topic/phd-in-finance-for-private-sector http://www.econjobrumors.com/topic/afa-private-sector-aqr-blackrock http://www.econjobrumors.com/topic/us-industry-salaries-for-phds/page/1 http://www.econjobrumors.com/topic/most-economists-are-losers

http://www.econjobrumors.com/topic/accounting-phd-vs-finance-phd

afajof.org/association/jobs.asp

Also, finish the PhD. Somehow. The signal premium is worth it. You could arguably drop out with an MS which was paid for and go to work on the street as a quant, but Dr. ABC > Mr. ABC.

Also the buy side roles which are available to Finance PhDs are VERY different from the roles held by MFEs.

Incremental benefit for doing Phd finance ( Originally Posted: 04/13/2013 )

Seeing recently stats of leading business school in US and UK (especially), i was amazed to find that msc/ms programs in finance requirements besides funding are less but they create greater monetary value for finance graduate. On other hand, phd guys invest 5 years with no experience/industry links have to end p on almost same salary. Starting salary for MS guy in year 0 ( just after graduation) is suppose 70 K then it would be approx 92 K by end of differential 4 years ( assuming 7 % increment in annual salary) On other hand, how many phd guys cross on such break even of 92 K at start?

I don't think that money is what is driving people to Finance PhDs. At least not as much as MS . But there are probably other things involved as well.

meaning you agree that on monetary ( or more precisely quantitative return on investment ) terms, phd is behind.

i actually put these facts to this forum just after seeing very few "quality" Masters level specialized fin. programs in US, on other hand all big universities are investing through doctorate level finance courses in finance industry.

From my understanding most of the PHD students in business schools go there for free. Most of these people want to teach and do research, which is cool. I don't think most of them get a phd for the money, it is more like credential that they need to be able to teach and do research.

PhD finance for a job in market ( Originally Posted: 07/17/2015 )

I am starting a PhD program in finance this September. My ultimate aim is to be a researcher in the AM industry and maybe in hedge funds. You might think that PhD is a painful and not a certain path to achieve it, but I would also like to keep options open for academia for the future.

My question here would be the areas/topics that industry might find attractive and that I can excel during my PhD. I am interested in topics in asset pricing and behavioral finance, like analysing/creating models to see the difference in prices of financial products in different stages of business cycles, etc. I am not sure whether those are relevant topics for AM and hedge fund analysts?

WRT my background, I do have a BS in Physics and MS in Finance so I feel I have capacities in both quantitative and financial areas. I am quite good in MATLAB, but VBA and C ++ or Java seem a-must to be in the market.

Please let me know which topics I need to focus on my PhD study, the ones that significantly help me to land some jobs in relevant areas. Not sure whether it make any sense, but my studies were in Europe and i want to stay in Europe. The school is ranked in the European top 10-20 with a few excellent researchers.

Many thanks

If you're getting a PhD and know matlab I would assume you can pick up vba in a few minutes, it's pretty basic (no pun intended)

Check out quantnet and poets and quants

I don't have any input here other than that I'd be careful about listening to advice from here for something as sensitive as your PHD thesis. I would reach out directly to HF 's directly and anyone else you want to work with else well.

Finance PhD's ( Originally Posted: 06/28/2007 )

What's the typical starting job for fresh Finance PhD's other than academia? Do they tend to go into quant-based funds or something similar or do a lot start out at Associated at BB 's?

Also, does it matter which school you get your PhD from? Can a PhD from Tier 2 B-school get a good job or is he/she going to have a hard time?

Why are you asking? These types of questions alone are a pretty good indication that you will never be a Finance PhD.

But to answer your question Finance PhDs have been known to secure jobs as quants and associates at BBs . Like always the better the school...the better your chances of landing these types of jobs.

Personally, I think a PhD in Finance is a complete waste of time unless you had your heart sent on the academic world. If youre brainy enough to get a PhD in finance youre probably brainy enough to get a PhD or at least a Masters in Math/Stats/CompSci/Physics, all of which are probably more marketable in the academic world AND finance.

I concur with Schumacher.

I was talking a bit ago with an MD at a MM I-bank and someone asked him a similar question. He responded with, while anything is possible, attaining a PhD in Finance won't really help your chances to get into Ibanking all that much. He personally felt that people who go this route tend to get too used to the culture and routine that is involved with school, and are better equipped to become a professor than to attempt to enter the business world.

One of the top interest rate quants in the world is a finance PhD.

Math Finance PhD to Wall Street ( Originally Posted: 10/17/2015 )

Long time reader, first time poster...

I'm currently a student in one of the top math finance programs. Until recently I'd planned on joining a finance department at a business school after completing my PhD. Unfortunately, having taken a number of finance courses not offered by the math department - we offer few topics courses - and I've discovered that most of the finance research is mathematically and/or statistically unsound.* The math finance research while rigorous is utterly useless.** As such, I'm strongly considering a transition back to the private sector.

Prior to joining my PhD, I worked in data analytics consulting for four years. I've generally held sales roles and have been client facing. I'm not your typical PhD: I love client interations, I wasn't a nerd in college or HS though I went to a good university, and I was an athlete throughout college and HS. Ideally, I'd like a role that facilitates a lot of social interaction and that's close to the money. Seeing the jobs most of our people get, and yes it's mainly quant jobs in banks or hedge funds , I've acquired the impression that those two things don't characterize their everyday tasks. Should I complete my PhD? Is there a role for a PhD that doesn't make you a trader's bitch or turn you into some sort of quasi-academic troll at Two Sigma?

I'm interested in why you think quants are quasi-academic trolls?

I've heard a lot of quants say that having a postgraduate math degree for quant roles is completely unnecessary/overkill, since the math you learn as an undergraduate math major is sufficient. It's more a function of marketability, or advertising on behalf of the firms who hire these math PhDs.

Also, your comments on mathematical-finance research seems reasonable given many of the opinions of renown quants. Apparently, a lot of the research has just become completely useless and unsound - essentially mental masturbation.

Keep in mind, quants at places like AQR/Two Sigma do more than just research - they also develop and execute actual investment strategies.

The issue is that your background already puts you into the 'quantitative roles bucket'. It may be difficult to convince people in roles with more client-interaction that they should hire you. Trading, risk and investment management roles are what's open to you right now. Of these, investment management would probably offer the most client-interactions.

Investment management at a BB like Goldman Sachs Asset Management , as opposed to a quant fund, may offer a bit more of what you're looking for. I have seen some quants (with/without PhDs) in asset management roles at BB banks. I also hear that Asset Management has quite a bit of client interaction, although others are better qualified to advise you on this.

If you want to get out of quant roles completely, then you're going to have more trouble. This is made significantly worse by the fact that you're a Math PhD, rather than straight out of undergrad. It makes you an 'experienced' hire and I'm not sure how well a Math PhD would be able to recruit for an IB analyst role, ect.

Careers options for PhD in Finance (Other than academia) ( Originally Posted: 11/14/2015 )

I am a first year PhD Finance student at a school which has very a solid reputation in overall but not the top in finance. As a PhD student, my priority is on getting an academic position, but I am also interested in career options in the industry.

Are there substantial number of people getting into IBD or Sales & Trading with a finance phd degree? I am also considering to quant or strats positions, but computational language is not something that I am familiar with.

I know that investment banks prefer fresh college graduates or MBA students over PhD candidates for their front office tasks other than quant, but I also heard that some trading desks dealing with more complicated products such as structure rates or exotics willingly hire PhD guys. Is that true?

If my research is on corporate finance , more specifically capital structure of firms, would it boost my employability for IBD ?

In terms of locational preference, I would not mind to work in any of major financial centers around world. (NY, London or HK) So, if you have any knowledge on those places, please give me some insight.

Quant Hedge Funds. Although it totally depends on the penchant of your PHD program. Quantitative Researchers are research (new models) and programming focused.

IBD I would say a no. You're likely too old and a bit too quantitatively orientated for the role which is as much soft skills as hard science. I would imagine you may have an easier time on the S&T side with a quant desk but I would think you'd likely need to develop some coding skills which frankly shouldn't be that hard to pick up.

Thanks, guys. So you guys suggest that only 'quant' related positions would be available for me? And for the programming language, I am currently using matlab and R for my coursework and research. Would it be sufficent?

undefined: Thanks, guys. So you guys suggest that only 'quant' related positions would be available for me? And for the programming language, I am currently using matlab and R for my coursework and research. Would it be sufficent?

Matlab and R are perfect. In trading , you want a language you can crunch data / backtest strategies with (R / Python) as well as one that has solid execution when you go live (Matlab / Python / C++). Look into statistical arbitrage / pairs trading, you should pick this up no problem w/ your background. Download a few data sets online, run some simple analysis to start, and you can formulate a strategy to start paper trading on your own. From there you can join prop desks, HFT , structuring etc.

If algorithmic trading doesn 't interest you and you don't want to go the pure academic route another way in is through a multilateral organization as an economist . After a few years those positions can set you up well to jump to a bank or hedge fund where you can make some serious coin.

I like the idea about economics. There is a third option other than industry and academia... Government!

Federal Reserve has nice paychecks and exit opps... They cap out around 200 k though if I remember right.

And PLEASE... If you want to go to industry do NOT do research on corporate finance . I would use the opportunity to find an arbitrage or something other statistically significant relationship which produces consistent alpha .

econ/finance phd ( Originally Posted: 04/08/2007 )

if you are currently in a econ or finance phd program what exit opportunities are there on wall street

FI and Equity Quant Reserch/Deriv Pricing groups, banks like Lehman and CS have a PhD day/presentation some time in fall, where they tell about PhD opportunities. make sure you school work is quant/econometrics related. Are you Stern fin or econ ?

just looking @ my options

You can become a professor.

Finance Phd ( Originally Posted: 10/23/2011 )

I am doing Phd in finance, passed the first two levels of CFA exams. I have been told that my background fits for buy side firms, especially HFs . My uni is not an ivy league school though. What do you think is the best way for me to contact HFs?

As my uni is not an ivy league school, they are not coming to my uni and it is hard for me to find something through the alumni.

Thanks in advance.

Cold call/ cold email tons of firms. Use Linkedin to connect with people at HFs you would be interested in working for. I'd imagine it wouldn't be hard to get responses since you're doing a PhD.

What topics are you studying in finance.. I'm just being nosy as I didn't know they offered such a Ph.d

My thesis in on market microstructure of derivatives market. I also work on asset pricing.

Let's say I am graduating in summer, when do you think I should start sending e-mails?

3 years ago.

buybuybuy: 3 years ago.

Agreed. Start emailing and calling ASAP. Attend as many networking events as possible. Tap into the alumni networks of both your PhD school and BA/ BS school, as well as any possible masters you may have done.

New here & im a PHD Finance hunter ( Originally Posted: 04/11/2014 )

Trying to get ideas about PHD finanace proposal.

Not sure if trolling, but if you're seriously looking for someone else to come up with your Phd topic, you probably should not be pursuing a Phd in the first place.

You should probably be talking with your advisor.

This cant be serious :)

finance phd ( Originally Posted: 10/01/2011 )

I will graduate this summer and I am taking CFA level 3 exam this June.I am good at econometrics , R and Matlab. My uni is not an ivy league school, but has a good reputation.

Sell side quants told me that my profile suits better for buy side jobs. I am wondering which buy side firms hire finance phds. Thanks in advance.

Take a look around the Hedge Fund forum. This site has alot of great resources. Here's some for you:

WSO hedge fund career guide

Phd in Finance profile eval ( Originally Posted: 09/27/2014 )

Hi Gurus out there.

I am interested in applying to Finance Phd program.

I would like gurus here to provide me some insights/ideas on my chances getting into these programs listed below:

Uni. of Michigan, UCLA, Duke, USC, Cornell, Boston College, University of Florida, Rutgers.

To provide info on my background/stats:

UGPA: 3.45 & GPGA: 3.5. Studied EE during undergrad and Comp. Engr as major and econ as minor studies during grad school w/ full fellowship & stipend.

GRE V 156 GRE Q 170 AWA 4... I know i bombed my verbal :(

1.5 yrs of research experience & winning IEEE research fellowship/scholarship for my research.

2 yrs of working @ High tech firm (think apple or google) by the time i enroll to phd program..

I am particularly worried about my gpa since it is not 3.8 or 3.9 as advertised on many phd program website...

Do you gurus think if I have a reasonable chance to get into one of the programs I listed above? And is there any particular area I should improve or work on, say GRE verbal for example?

Any advice or comment will be appreciated :)

Just to add another piece of info...

i received my BSE & MSE from top 5 engineering program.....

Your background certainly isn't bad. I have done some reading in finance PhD programs and I think you have a lot of points in your favor. I think it is likely that you will be able to get in somewhere, however there are a few things to keep I mind from what I've read:

The Math. Have you taken Real Analysis in undergrad? Finance and Econ PhDs are pretty brutal math-wise and knowing the EE students I know, it is very possible to come out of an engineering program without a strong enough math background for a Finance/Econ PhD.

You alluded to this in your post but finance PhD programs are extremely competitive. Even for someone like you it will be tough to get in to a top program.

Research fellowship is a big point in your favor, leverage that in your application.

Great thanks for your comment. First of all, here is a list of math courses I took: Cal I, II, III, IV, Linear Algebra, statistics, Regression/forecasting, Probabilistic method in engineering which covers some Real Analysis, and many other engineering courses requiring intro knowledge level of Real analysis. But I have not taken a course called Real Analysis. And I am aware of the competitiveness of the Finance PHD program :(

What do you think of my lowish gpa and verbal score? Any reg flag or yellow card?

Finance PhD ( Originally Posted: 08/11/2011 )

Most recent post on this seems to be in 2007.

To put it simply, I did my undergrad in Finance, have an MBA , and am taking CFA Level III next June. Working in ER currently.

Really considering going and doing my doctorate. Love the researching professor lifestyle and autonomy. Anyone done this? Advice going forward? (Starting next fall)

That actually sound pretty cool...

I'm actually interested in pursuing this path as well

Professor Jarrow at Cornell was a math major and a MBA from Tuck. He got his PhD at MIT in 3 years after that. Look up HJM model.

To the OP, what specific field within finance are you interested in?

I dropped out of an Econ PhD, so if anyone is considering this path and wants to ask me any questions, feel free to PM me.

The life of an academic is, to misquote Thomas Hobbes, "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish" and shit.

You have much less autonomy you think you do; you're obliged to churn out a constant streams of papers that will (most likely) be read by almost nobody; and, you have to be prepared to relocate to the middle-of-nowhere's-ville to take a job teaching undergrads. To make things worse, the actual process of researching can be incredibly lonely too.

Not for me. And I strongly considered it.

Specific field of interest would be more on the corporate side of things -- M&A, spin-offs, restructurings, etc.

Thanks for the input, all. Definitely is a major decision with ramifications, but there's a major part of me that believes I will regret it if I don't do it.

Also, I think that a major catalyst for my thought process here is that I don't really see myself living tick-by-tick to the stock market, or being so focused on a given industry that I can tell you the exact inventory level for a company 3 quarters ago. Don't get me wrong, I love my job right now -- and I think that analysts who are so in tune with an industry are really good, and it's amazing to see that level of knowledge about companies.

I feel like the things that I like about doing ER I can do for my own portfolio on a go-forward basis. And I also want to make sure that I can have solid balance in my life -- be a husband, be a good dad. Not that it can't be done in ER , but the balance challenge is significantly more difficult.

I'm aware that academia is no bed of roses and that there's no "free lunch", but I feel like, for me, the benefits outweigh the costs.

Fair enough.

Do a Masters and re-assess. I was dead set on avoiding the City and "corporate" economics when I finished my undergrad. Two years later I u-turned.

So long as you apply yourself with gusto- and don't look back- you can't really go wrong, as with most things in life. Until your set off in the direction, keep your options open and don't burn any bridges.

PhD Finance for I-Banks !? ( Originally Posted: 11/10/2007 )

i'm currently studying economics and am considering a phd in finance, I'm still having about 2years ahead until graduation though.

Why I would like yet to get a clear opinion whether or not to pursue a PhD afterwards is, since if I wanted to do one (in a really good school) I would need to concentrate more (maybe entirely) on my studies now in order to get a sufficient good degree, in contrast to doing as many as possible relevant internships in order to get a good job directly after graduation. Aside from that I would need to apply already in about a year I guess.

I read already some related threads about the topic, many advice "do it if you really are interested in the subject" which makes definitely sense and of course I am interested! but if i knew already which job i would like to go for for sure and also knew that the phd wouldnt be usefull for that particular job, i wouldn't do one I think. But since I don't really know yet, what kind of job to aim for (and general whether industry or maybe academia) it also would help me to keep all my options open.

I read many times that in many areas of i-banks a phd absolutely wouldn't be neccessary, though i read as well since financial instruments are getting more and more complex a phd could be beneficial.

So my main question is in which areas of i-banks (i.e. sales, trading , risk management, NOT structuring since that's obvious) is a finance phd (with what specialisation?) beneficial or even neccessary?

I'd really appreciate your input! Thanks a lot in advance!

I don't know much about other areas, but for corporate finance , a PhD is definitely not required, nor is it beneficial.

Ibanks generally have economists and market strategists (not sure who gets these jobs and how) that generally most of these people carry PhDs.

The trend at most quant trading desks seems to leaning more towards the physics, mathematics, statistics PhDs.

If you have a good math background you can check out the MFE programs both in the U.S. and U.K. Its a great degree to have if you want to break into trading

To be honest, a Finance PhD is basically only beneficial to people who want to become college professors, which has its perks (ridiculously short hours, low stress environment, and great pay assuming you can get a job at a half-decent college). If I-banking is what you're after though, dont waste 8-12 years of your life pursuing a PhD when you could be gaining some valuable work exp.

A PhD would be relevant on certain trading desks, research, probably risk management, and I can't really speak to other areas . If you have a finance PhD you will not have a problem getting a job at a bank - they are in very high demand. Having said that, don't get a PhD as a means to get into banking unless you are really, really, interested in the topic you're working on. Something like 50% of PhD finance candidates burn out, and that's coming from an already very select crowd - I've heard admissions stats are somewhere around 10-20%. It's not an easy road.

career advice for PhD student ( Originally Posted: 01/18/2013 )

I wouldn't recommend to do that online MBA . To me that's kinda ridiculous. There are all kinds of majors in IBD , so don't worry about that. Maybe the CFA Level I can show your general interest in finance, but there are very variable notions on this strategy here on WSO

You're Ivy, so that's a very big plus. I would concentrate on getting my story right: " Why do you wanna do finance?" Why now? What can you bring to the table? I also would try to dwell on your quant skills, if there are any.

Your age is a big problem, so be prepared.

restructury, thanks for your comment.

Do I have a realistic shot at an associate position with a MBA? Should I do the UCLA certificate program in investment management and analysis? Is taking CFA 1 is the best course of action if I have some time to spare on preparation for IB job (beside networking)?

Due to my experience you would only have a shot for an assoiciate positions with a prestigious MBA , not at all with an online MBA .

The UCLA program or CFA Level I program is a very good add on in my opinion.

But I think you have to focus on getting a job (networking) more than to add another qualification.

So let me ask you: Why do you wan't to get into finance?

Have you ever thought about consulting? (Your CV and Ph.D. may have mor advantages here) I'm just asking because I do have a couple of friends who want(ed) to get out of their traditional field (engineering, chemistry;..) just to do something more business related without any clear focus.

you're an ivey so....NETWORK, NETWORK and NETWORK!

I am leaning towards a MBA which could open more doors compared to specific training/knowledge I could get from CFA . Even though its online, its the same degree given to other students in the full-time program (the interviewers won't know unless he/she asks me explicitly about the nature of the program) Since I already have access to alumni network and career services at my ivy league schools, I don't care much about the networking opportunity within my MBA cohort. My plan is not get another brand name on my resume - but to retool my management skills and sharpen my business acumen, which I think can be done through an online program.

I am also planning to give a shot at consulting too. BUT English is my second language, and my presentation skills might not be as smooth as those of native speakers. And consulting involves a lot more interactions with clients, social skills play a bigger role to success in consulting than in IB . So I guess I might have better chances of having a career in IB .

I don't want to go into academia. My goal had been to join the private sector since I started my PhD program. Finance fascinates me for several reasons (including great pay). Particularly, I am pretty good with analytical skills and want to help companies search out ways to become more financially independent. Another reason is that my home country does not have an established financial market (no credit bureau , no mortgage loan, no stock exchange ). With international experiences and top-notch training i could get here in the US, my dream is to return home one day and help develop the financial sector back in my country.

Any more suggestions? Thank you!

You can make it into banking- but generally speaking the work is pretty mind numbing and might feel below your intellectual abilities / curiosity, given that you have gone through the trouble of getting an advanced degree. Realistically, your best shot is to network your way in. Success depends on how good you are at networking, MBAs , CFAs , all that stuff is a waste of time.

What are my odds going from PhD into these business schools? ( Originally Posted: 05/02/2014 )

I am looking to apply to a MBA program this coming fall and switching away from R&D into management and consulting roles within the life science and biotech industry. I will be 28 when I enroll, this is a little on the older side I believe. Anyways, I would appreciate you guys' opinions on my chances.

Undergrad (top 2 Canada): Economics (3.4/4.0) Graduate (semi-target U.S) : Biochemistry PhD GMAT : 730

Work experience: Boutique consulting (co-op, life science biotech industry): 7 months IT consulting and implementation (current, healthcare and life science industry) : 6 months Software Start up (current, health care and life science industry): COO , 8 months.

I am interested in the following schools and programs:

Cornell (Johnson): 1 year MBA program for scientists Fuqua (healthcare management program) Haas UCLA USC Marshall (I am not sure how Marshall is doing, from the latest statistics it would seem that 25% of graduates are without job placement; I would like some thoughts on this as well)

Thanks again.

28 is the average age, so you're definitely not on the old side. Your work experience is a bit on the light side, and it's going to be a red flag that you were at two firms for less than a year unless you explain it well. That said, a dual Biochem Ph.D and MBA will make you highly employable, so I think you can certainly get into the schools you are aiming for (although, you might come off as unfocused since your career isnt based on your Ph.D...make sure you can build a coherent story). You MIGHT have to re-apply once before you get in, to show more experience, but you'll definitely get in eventually. You might have more trouble in the Top 10/ MBA business schools "> M7 schools though if you decide to reach, but your target schools are fine (Haas will be a reach though).

Your work experience is a HUGE red flag. Three jobs under a year each?! Most people hold on to a position for at least 2 years. Maybe you should look into patent law. There are alot of top firms that will pay you to goto law school and give you a six figure paycheck.

Thank you for the input guys. I realize that my work experience will be a glaring weakness on my application that I would need to address in some capacity. To qualify, I was not laid off, nor was I job hopping. My 7 months work experience at the boutique consulting firm was a work study (co-op) program. The work focused on management consulting for the life science and biotech industry. I am still currently employed at the start-up and the IT consulting firm. Both firms are involved in software development for the healthcare and life science sector. By the time I matriculate into any MBA program I would have been at these two companies for 2 years.

I am also not sure how MBA programs take into consideration the PhD experience. As part of the PhD program, I essentially served as a research assistant for 4 years. Since I am legally a paid employee of the University, should this not count as work experience in some capacity?

Yes, your work experience as a research assistant in the university does count. Your combination on-going experiences look consistent with what I have seen in other students who are applying from an academic setting. I don't see any red flags. But like any other candidate, you want to present your purpose as having something bigger than simply wanting to switch functions. Get your story clear, I mean really clear, and of course, figure out ways that your experiences will add to a class.

Tell us more about this Cornell program for scientists (!) I thought it was just a tech program in NY . -- sorry to be ignorant, especially in public. I will be visiting the Cornell Tech Center in NY in a few weeks, so give me good questions to ask.

I do know of a number of PhDs that have gone to MBA business schools "> M7 schools more or less straight out of grad school. Doable, but not that common. If you can justify an MBA (having a good story) and also have demonstrated excellence out of academics (ECs, leadership roles, etc...), I believe you would be competitive at your schools of interest.

PhD looking for job at BB bank ( Originally Posted: 09/20/2012 )

i'm looking for a job at a BB . i'm generally clueless about finance but i am pretty sure i will like it if i get into it. i'm doing a phd in engineering from a good school and i expect to graduate in may or august next year.

few questions...

do Citi , jp, GS , etc have specific programs to hire people with my background? would my background (PhD plus a couple internships ) be sufficient to pass a resume screen?

given that i want to graduate next summer, when should i look to apply? is it rolling? is there a deadline for phds?

are phds hired differently from ba's? would i be interviewing for an associate role as opposed to analyst?

what divisions are there, and how is the prestige associated with each of them?

how do i best prepare for interviews?

any languages?

There's literally book guides printed out to answer those general questions. Search the forum or read them. also go to the wilmott forum instead. More PhDs there and they would be more knowledgeable of the opportunities. This forum is mostly populated with Investment Bankind Division aspirants. You'd be in Sales and Trading .

The most important and first filter for you is going to be- how good is your C++?

And yes, you'd be an associate. And full-time recruiting is going on right now. But for the jobs where they specifically look for quant PhDs- that recruiting isn't as structured. (of course some PhDs go into non-PhD required/recommended jobs too). For the quant PhD jobs you're looking at 3 main things:

• risk management. especially market risk. considered middle office . nobody's top choice. mostly statistics skills. filled with many non-PhDs too. Some people kind it interesting though. little to no programming.
• Quantitative Developer. This is almost all programming work. Yet filled with math/physics/engineerg, etc PhDs.
• model validation. almost all quant PhDs. will require programming but not as much as QD. Generally MFE-type maths, but they prefer a PhD to get it right. Considered a typical springboard to front office trading /structuring.
• trading. what everyone wants. the background highly depend on the asset you trade- PhDs will go to the exotic products or the more automated products (automated is obviously programming work).

thanks a lot.

i know a bit of C and am gonna work on developing that. i think i will be fine after studying it for a month...

is there any other skill theyre gonna look for? for instance, say my phd is in engineering. are they gonna ask me technical questions related to my prior cousework? or is it just going to be basic probability questions and brainteasers that i've seen on the internet?

finally, assuming im an industrial engineering phd from columbia, have working C skills, and can talk about my research, what's the chance i can get hired as a phd, in any div at GS ?

bajamrock9: what's the chance i can get hired as a phd, in any div at GS ?

GS is the first company that always comes to mind because they reached out to me. i'll consider any bb firm though. i was just picking out one as an example.

is there any other skill theyre gonna look for? for instance, say my phd is in engineering. are they gonna ask me technical questions related to my prior cousework? or is it just going to be basic probability questions and brainteasers that i've seen on the internet? finally, assuming im an industrial engineering phd from columbia, have working C skills, and can talk about my research, what's the chance i can get hired as a phd, in any div at GS ?

An interview is not going to be advanced technical stuff. But in the past it was common to have some people take a test and decide interviews based on that. That's another reason you'd want to apply sooner or later. Credit Suisse used to have a in-house test for applicants to their "quantitative associate" program- which basically encompassed 99% of the jobs a PhD would go into. Several times a year they'd have a 100+ people come in and take a test- mostly higher-level undergrad level questions in math areas useful for finance. And another common thing is an online test that supposedly measures your programming ability through multiple choice questions. There's a company that does it that several banks use- can't remember the name now.

But how they interview PhDs can change over the years depending on the bank, the department and sometimes even whoever is currently in charge in that area. Don't know how GS does it. As for your chances of getting into ANY division at GS? That's not an illuminating question. And in fact depends more on their current staffing needs in particular areas than it does on you (unless you're an expert in some in vogue area like signal processing?). But assuming you work at it- e.g. contacting HR and headhunters- I'd say pretty good.

GS is actually the largest employer of PhD's after I believe the federal government. BB love PhDs and they are much harder to fire too, due to their expertise.

Consider finding a recruiting firm.

You will most likely find a position as a quant or as GS likes to call them, strategists. Put simply, you will a traders bitch.

I don't think that's true. At the end of the day its a bank not a technology/science company. And quantitative finance is just a subset of a broader industry. Besides Google is almost 2x as big. IBM is 10x as big (in employees).

I'm sure they have a higher attrition rate though- just because there's a higher learning curve in their job.

thanks so much for the insights, everyone. very helpful.

so all in all, you'd say that there is a good chance that I can land a job at a BB , provided I prepare. that's pretty much what I wanted to gauge.

given that, what would you say is the best way I should approach preparing for interviews? is the interview process as cutthroat as it is for undergrads? is there a book or a program i can subscribe to that will prepare me for interviews? i'm just reading wilmott's FAQs in quantitative finance as of now.

Heard on the Street....but its kinda old now. But everyone uses this. And they expect almost everyone to have seen it. Review your probability, calculus, ode/pde. Prepare for C++ brainteasers . The interview process is a lot more variable then undergrad. It's not nearly as structured. Typically not as many stages.

They'll look at your CV and ask you questions from it. So be prepared for that obviously. If you display some quant finance knowledge they might ask you further questions. Otherwise just read Hull . If you have time- then go into more finance reading like Shreve- but better to be strong on the basics than weak and broad. The finance questions will be secondary. If you fuck up the prob/calc/ode question- then that's instant death.

Next, a lot of PhD hires are interviewed specifically by a certain desk/group for a specific position. So once you hear about the interview- you're going to want to learn more about their work, the financial instrument, etc. And pay extra attention on that group's most relevant quant skill. e.g. for an interview with market risk you might want to add stats/econometrics to your reviewing. for model validation pde's. for quant developer- c++ brainteasers .

doing phd while networking into ib ( Originally Posted: 02/07/2013 )

With a PHD you'd be overqualified

Your communication skills will be a huge roadblock, regardless of what you decide to do.

The Kid: Your communication skills will be a huge roadblock, regardless of what you decide to do.

'I am an international student who is about to graduate this semester from a non-target school in US, have not yet networked enough and secured a job in IB due to time manners. I am thinking of pursuing a PHD degree here in US after my undergraduate probably at schools around New York area so that it would be easy for me to travel there and make connections. If success in securing a job, then I would leave the PHD program. I dont want to pursue a MSF or a MFE due to budgetary issue. Do you think it is feasible? Will I have a shot in getting into BBs? By the way I am majoring in economics, had an internship with a boutique in the M&A advisory, but currently only targeting the BBs'

'have not yet networked enough' 'due to time manners.' 'if success in securing a job' 'due to budgetary issue,' etc.

Iunno. your point gets across, but it's not 'good' english persay.

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