phd without funding reddit

Is PhD without funding a polite rejection?

<p>I applied to PhD programs for this coming spring and fall semester. I received an admissions offer from my top choice school. It’s a public school, decently ranked (top 20) in my field. They weren’t able to offer any funding. My potential adviser explained funding isn’t guaranteed by anyone across the entire program. I can apply for a TA position but since my background isn’t as aligned with coursework compared to others, this probably wouldn’t transpire. </p>

<p>My questions:</p>

<ol> <li><p>I’m now reading on some forums to consider no funding as a school’s way of giving an applicant a polite rejection. Is this true? </p></li> <li><p>School A. offered me partial funding and School B offered me no funding. School A. will cost the same as School B once the partial funding is deducted from the tuition. </p></li> </ol>

<p>Any help appreciated.</p>

<p>Many years ago I worked as an administrator in a PhD program. In my experience what this means is that your area of study does not align well with the department’s existing grant funding or restricted funds and overall you’re probably not among the department’s top candidates. Depending on the department and how much unrestricted funding they have available they’ll probably spend what little funds they have on the superstar applicants. There’s no shame in not being in this top group. An offer is an offer, and the department wouldn’t have extended one to you if they didn’t want you. </p>

<p>As both offers are equal I’d go with department you think is stronger and the advisor whose interests align best with yours.</p>

<p>If you’re not funded and not independently wealthy, I would seriously suggest not pursuing a Ph.D right now and waiting for another admissions cycle. Borrowing basically the full cost of a doctoral program is asking to set yourself up for financial troubles down the road. Committing to a Ph.D without funding is inadvisable.</p>

<p>I probably wouldn’t take an unfunded Ph.D position myself. It’s not an inherently bad thing about you or about the school, but if their needs don’t match up with your skills or what you are going into then it’s kind of like forcing a round peg into a square whole in my experience!! Reapplying in the next admissions cycle is one idea, but I really want to implore you to consider taking part-time work as a TA, grad assistant, or even working i an unrelated capacity to support ourself in your PH.D track if you are really. There’s a chance that if you show that you are versatile and dedicated that they might switch your position to on ethat is at least partially funded which may make it more attractive once they see that you are indeed a strong candide.</p>

<p>I understand what you’re saying. I would be lower on the list of T.A. candidates at the unfunded school because many classes taught there are geared towards students seeking certification. It doesn’t make sense to have an non-certified individual being a T.A. for certification classes. That said, the chair and other faculty members seemed to really advocate for my application…so the whole process has become confusing. I’d without question pursue employment and/or outside TA/RA positions from the department at the unfunded school. Also, thanks everyone for your thoughts and input. It’s very much appreciated. I haven’t made a decision yet and having an outside perspective is refreshing.</p>

<p>It used to be, but these days it’s not necessarily. Funding is tight everywhere, and many programs that otherwise would offer funding to everyone have less to offer.</p>

<p>Still, I wouldn’t attend an unfunded PhD program. It’s simply not worth it. Your first 3-4 years, while still in coursework and comprehensive exams, will likely cost in excess of $50,000. And even once you are finished, your last 2-3 years can cost $30,000. That brings you over $200,000 - how could you ever hope to repay that? </p>

<p>You also don’t want to have to work outside of the department during a PhD program, at least not in unrelated activities to support yourself. You’ll have less time to do the things you need to do to advance your career, and you’ll be competing with funded students who were able to devote 100% of their work time to those same things.</p>

<p>I would take neither offer, and apply again next fall.</p>

<p>I would guess that it could be really difficult to do a PhD without funding.</p>

<p>I’ve met some people though who pursued grad degrees “on the side” while working full-time at regular jobs. This is more common at some schools, in some departments, than at others.</p>

<p>First, don’t feel down about it, graduate admissions are a fickle creature and they liked you enough to admit you, so that’s good. Second, don’t do it. One of the reasons I think they pay science Ph.Ds is because the field would otherwise die within a generation; The jobs just don’t pay very well until you reach the very hard-to-get faculty position (and not even then sometimes!) so it’d be a completely unsustainable practice. We’d all carry debt to our graves, and no one wants that. Wait until you get PAID to get your degree, then go from there.</p>

Unfunded Ph.D.s: To Go or Not To Go

By  Natascha Chtena

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When applying to Ph.D. programs, I was often advised to consider an acceptance without departmental funding as a polite rejection. I chose to pursue an unfunded Ph.D. regardless. Partly because I really wanted to go back to school, partly because I really wanted to work with my current advisor, partly because I really wanted to move to the States and this was an opportunity to do so. After securing partial funding from a private institution overseas, I felt empowered, special and, even, unbreakable.

Looking back, I think that more than anything I was delusional. Wearing pink glasses and riding a unicorn, I repeatedly told myself that "everything will be ok." Some people tried to warn me, but most — especially from within academia — simply fed those delusions. They told me how big an achievement it was to get accepted in the first place, and they highlighted how "confident" they felt that my "excellent" credentials and "past accomplishments" would enable me to get funding "eventually."

And they weren't all wrong, actually. I have secured a TAship for the rest of the year and my external scholarship has been renewed. I also love my new life and am grateful for the doors this Ph.D. has opened. So no, this isn't a story about failure. I am not writing this to convince you that pursuing an unfunded (or partially funded) Ph.D. will be the greatest mistake of your life. I am writing this because I am a firm believer that reality shouldn't be sugarcoated and struggle shouldn't be romanticized. Whether you make the "smart" or "crazy" choice, I hope this post will help you make an  informed  choice.

1. Invisibility:  It sounds harsh but if your department is unwilling to fund you, they probably don’t care that much about you OR your project. This means essentially two things: a) you will work under the radar in terms of the departmental/faculty focus and thus most likely will receive limited moral support and superficial feedback to your work and b) even if money does “show up” somehow, nobody will be familiar or interested enough in your work to hand it to you. Of course, if you’re the ambitious type, you might be inclined to use the absence of funding as an opportunity to impress your advisor and show everyone how brilliant you are. Don’t forget, however, that a Ph.D. is exhausting even without the pressure to “blow minds.”

2. Envy:  Kaitlin recently wrote about  how big a role envy plays  in the postgrad academic experience. Envy for that person with the published research, the better advisor, the better supervisor, and the “more awesome” resume in general. No matter how balanced or self-confident you are, that little green monster will strike at some point in your graduate career. Don’t get me wrong, envy can certainly be a good thing: it can boost motivation, admiration, inspiration, and creativity, among others. But if you’re unfunded, on top of this potentially useful envy, comes an envy that I have personally found useless, wearing and, frequently, depressing. It’s the envy for basic human pleasures that you simply cannot enjoy because of your second part-time job, that funding application you are permanently working on, or the extra course-load that you have inflicted upon yourself in hope of graduating early; envy for those students who can take Sundays off, develop hobbies, go on road-trips, cook complex dinners, and build and sustain deep, meaningful relationships.

3. Self-depreciation:  Intensity will vary depending on personality and whether the program you are entering is overall well-funded or not. Finding yourself in a cohort of unfunded Ph.D.s who are going through similar struggles can enhance feelings of community and collegiality and make for an otherwise positive Ph.D. experience. But if your cohort is mixed (funded and unfunded) or, even more, if you are in the unfunded minority, you will sooner or later be confronted with feelings of insecurity, inferiority, and self-loathing. Ask yourself if you have the kind of network that will support you in your darkest hours.

4. Psychosomatic Disorders:  Time,  workload , and performance-related stress are synonymous with grad school, and they’re often more than even the most well-balanced and positive Ph.D. student can handle. For unfunded students, those stress levels are even higher. Now add to that the  depression, anxiety, and other emotional burdens related to serious financial stress —how long do you think you can keep going without crashing? Even if you have a family that is willing to support you, ask yourself if you are truly and honestly willing to be supported for 5+ years. After all, what feels fine or “cool” at 25, can be unbearable at 30.

5. Limited prestige:  While many like to highlight the autonomy, flexibility, and sense of personal ownership that an unfunded status can enable, the reality of being unfunded carries a stigma that shouldn’t be romanticized or swept under the carpet. Most people will not admire your resilience, determination, or devotion to a given cause or subject. Most people will consider you defective, second-tier or, quite frankly, a loser for paying your way through grad school. It doesn’t matter if your department is the poorest in the country or if everyone else in your cohort is unfunded as well. What most people will see when looking at you (including faculty and future employers) is the popular image of the unfunded Ph.D., and that image says that you aren’t quite cutting it.

6. Low market value:  If upon graduation you’re hoping for a tenure-track position at a prestigious institution, you’d better think twice before accepting an unfunded Ph.D. offer. Getting private, government, or university funding demonstrates you're able to attract money, something that is highly prized by academic employers. Thus, many jobs ask for evidence of successful funding, and not being able to offer that is going to put you at serious disadvantage within an  already exclusive, and occasionally cruel, job market.

Have you pursued or are pursuing an unfunded Ph.D? What have your own experiences with it been like? What advice would you share with someone considering taking an unfunded offer?

[Image by Flickr user  Xeni Jardin  and used under Creative Commons License.]

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STEM I got admitted for a PhD without Funding ( self.AskAcademia )

submitted 7 months ago by Ready_Property550

I have been very interested in researchwork since my childhood. I have conducted 1 group research and one solo research. I applied for PhD for Spring in the field of Engineering and got accepted without any funding in US. Its really tough for me to attend the university without any scholarship and funding. I have completed my Gre and IELTS and have decent scores. I am really interested to join the university. What should I do now?

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[–] OrbitalPete UK Earth Science 40 points 41 points 42 points 7 months ago   (4 children)

OK, please don't take this the wrong way, but thre are plenty of supervisors who will happily take on pretty much anyone for an unfunded PhD, and many universities let them get away with it. There are lots of benefits for them - free labour on research projects, the possibility of more publications, etc.

The reality is that if a funding council, company or university have not already stumped up the cash to fund a project then you trying to find funding as a student yourself is incredibly unlikely.

I would strongly advise against taking an unfunded PhD (and I say this as someone who did an unfunded PhD 20 years ago - the only reason mine was viable is that I had masses of teaching experience so was employed as a visiting academic during my PhD and taught enough to pay my way)

[–] Ready_Property550 [ S ] 2 points 3 points 4 points 7 months ago   (3 children)

Thankyou very much for the suggestion. I was really happy when I got admitted. I told my parents too and they were also very happy. I felt like I am achieving my dream. When, I realized I will not be funded it hit me real hard. It feels like something is so close but yet so far. I want to thankyou for taking your time sharing your view.

[–] ThreenegativeO 5 points 6 points 7 points 7 months ago   (1 child)

You’ve got this far. That’s a worthwhile achievement.

I’d really carefully weigh your options and seriously consider reaching out to the supervisor who agreed to cover you and explore how you could improve your proposal and application in the next application round to be likely to receive funding.

I left an industry role with a health wage to undertake my PhD and am luckily enough to have significant spousal support who could have gotten me through unfunded. There was no way I was going to accept an unfunded position though, a PhD is too wild a journey to add the stress of not being at least slightly contributing to my marriage’s financial health.

[–] Ready_Property550 [ S ] 0 points 1 point 2 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

I will surely reach out to him. I am unmarried and it means no spousal financial support. I want to enjoy my researchwork which would be extremely difficult without funding. Thankyou, for your support.

[–] OrbitalPete UK Earth Science 7 points 8 points 9 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

To be clear - this doesn't mean you're not capable of doing a PhD or that you shouldn't be pursing one. It means this is not the opportunity for you. Find a better project that comes with funding, or speak to this supervisor about putting in for a fellowship that might be able to fund you in ~12 months time..

[–] ArnoF7 24 points 25 points 26 points 7 months ago   (6 children)

Try to apply for outside fellowship if you really want to attend.

But my two cents is that it’s not very advisable to do a PhD without any form of guaranteed funding. Even a funding tied to teaching would be better. Because no funding basically means you will be working a full-time job for free. It’s not good for your mental health

[–] Ready_Property550 [ S ] 0 points 1 point 2 points 7 months ago   (5 children)

Whom should we contact for outside fellowship? University or Any Company.

[–] TangentialMusings -5 points -4 points -3 points 7 months ago   (4 children)

National Science Foundation GFRP.

[–] Neat_Fix_8489 2 points 3 points 4 points 7 months ago   (1 child)

Great advice but might not be applicable. OP mentioned taking IELTS which is an English proficiency test for non-native English speakers so there’s a high chance that OP is an international student. In that case, OP is not eligible for NSF funding.

[–] mleok STEM, Professor, USA R1 2 points 3 points 4 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

Yes, the OP is almost surely an international student, so the NSF GRF program would not be relevant.

[+] [deleted] 7 months ago   (1 child)

[–] TangentialMusings -1 points 0 points 1 point 7 months ago *   (0 children)

Assuming OP is eligible, is it ulikely that OP would be competitive? Of course!

Having attended a program where NSF funded nearly half my cohort (some GF; more DDRIG), and yet, many ppl were underemployed (about a third were still adjuncting 3 years post graduation), I see zero point in gate keeping information that could help someone 1) potentially get funding and 2) understand how truly competitive the field is.

[–] mleok STEM, Professor, USA R1 5 points 6 points 7 points 7 months ago   (1 child)

Do not accept a PhD offer in engineering in the U.S. without funding.

[–] Ready_Property550 [ S ] 1 point 2 points 3 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

Thankyou for the information. I will do that.

[–] popstarkirbys 1 point 2 points 3 points 7 months ago   (7 children)

Inquire about ta opportunities with the department or graduate assistantship opportunities with the grad school

[–] Ready_Property550 [ S ] 0 points 1 point 2 points 7 months ago   (6 children)

I inquired about that and they told me there were not enough funding for new students. Initially they told me assistantship will be available to PhD student and when I get accepted they turned away from their word. I tried to contact with professors. They are not replying to my emails. I have only two month and I am doing everything in my boundary to contact members of the university for the opportunity of funding and assistantship. Lets see how my this process will go on. If I will miss this opportunity, I will feel really unlucky.

[–] TangentialMusings 0 points 1 point 2 points 7 months ago   (3 children)

Can you defer a year and apply for funding?

[–] Ready_Property550 [ S ] 0 points 1 point 2 points 7 months ago   (2 children)

There is no guarantee that defering a year will grant me funding. But thankyou for your suggestion.

[–] TangentialMusings 0 points 1 point 2 points 7 months ago   (1 child)

Well, it could buy you time to apply for external funding (like an NSF DDRG) or internal funding through the university. Don’t assume that the professors or the dept are aware of all the scholarships and fellowships that are available; indeed, the current PhD students might know more about that.

I spent 15 yrs in academia as a PhD student, instructor, and as a PI. In my field, “PhD funding” refers to a fellowship that has no teaching or research assistant obligations. This funding can be internal (an award from the university) or external (like NSF).

That said, the vast majority of funding packages awarded to incoming students include a few years of teaching and research assistantship obligations. Once you get to the dissertation phase, there is more money available for you to apply for. It’s getting the funding for the first 2-4 years of doctoral coursework that is the challenge.

While it’s true that the normal scenario is that the PhD program guarantees a multi-year funding package at admission, another way to go about this is to fund year by year. If you can secure a 1-year support for your first year, you can apply for funding for the next year. You’ll have to hustle. But success begets success.

[–] Ready_Property550 [ S ] -1 points 0 points 1 point 7 months ago   (0 children)

I am not afraid to hustle. I want to work hard on the thing that I enjoy the most which is research work. I have dreamt about that for a very long time. I manifested that. But with out financial help, I am unable to attend the university. At the moment, my dreams are looking like castle of sand. Thankyou for your time. I appreciate your support and suggestion.

[–] DeskAccepted (Associate Professor, Business) 3 points 4 points 5 points 7 months ago   (1 child)

I inquired about that and they told me there were not enough funding for new students. Initially they told me assistantship will be available to PhD student and when I get accepted they turned away from their word. I tried to contact with professors. They are not replying to my emails.

Ok. Listen, this can be hard to hear, but from this information, there are so many red flags that you definitively should not continue pursuing this program.

You should not do a PhD program in engineering in the US without full funding. There are many, many students admitted to reputable programs each year with full guaranteed funding for 5 years. This offer not only comes without any funding, but it seems there is no one there who is even mildly interested in helping you . Forget about funding for a second, how will you even find a dissertation advisor? Nobody is interested enough to even respond to your emails!

You shouldn't just decline the offer, you should cross this school off your list for next year.

Yes.. I think I will do that. Thankyou for your time and suggestion.

[–] Puzzleheaded-Tax2606 1 point 2 points 3 points 7 months ago   (1 child)

I didn’t even know those existed anymore

[–] Present-Ad-5630 0 points 1 point 2 points 7 months ago   (0 children)

You should visit Greece then.

[–] Schwarzkatze0615 0 points 1 point 2 points 7 months ago   (1 child)

Can you apply for some governmental scholarship in your home country? Usually there will be something available for PhD students

If you don't come from a well-off background, it's really not advised to do a PhD without funding, especially in the US, because PhD programmes in the US take way longer than many other countries...

I come from a small country. There is Fullbright scholarship. These is not any specific financial help from governement to study in US.

[–] MacaronNo5646 0 points 1 point 2 points 7 months ago   (1 child)

Don't. Only do a PhD if you are getting paid

Thankyou for your suggestion.

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Attending a PhD program without funding

By EnviroEcon February 6, 2009 in PhD in Economics

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Hypothetically, if you don't get any funded offers [knock on wood] from the PhD programs you applied to, but at least got accepted to some decent programs (top 20-30), would you attend or revamp your credentials and apply the next year? (alternatively, what if you get funded offers from schools low on your list, but unfunded offers from higher ranked programs?) Honestly, how devastating would it really be to have to fund your own first year of graduate study given that if you make it past the first year you're usually in line to receive financial assistance (a hefty assumption?) in the form of a TAship or RAship for the rest of your time in that program? Is it really that bad? Am I missing something? I know that could include (out-of-state) tuition, health insurance, room and board, but what might that come to: 30K? Is it worth turning down the prospect of graduating with a degree from a school ranked 10-40 spots higher on the ladder having to pay your own way the first year in order to attend a funded program that is of (significant/marginal) lower prestige? Understanding that where you graduate, no matter how much debt you might incur, could affect the next 5-10 years of your life, or more...

I understand these decisions are made on a case by case basis dependent on the schools in questions, but generally, what's the overall consensus on the subject?

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FilleNouvelle

A couple of professors told me that if I found myself in this situation, I should choose to attend the higher ranked school and try to get funding later. But I think it depends on the magnitude of the quality/prestige difference as well as your personal financial circumstances. I would also probably very heavily consider if the higher ranked program is the kind that accepts more students than they intend to pass, or more generally, how likely it is for students admitted without funding for the first year to get funding in later years.

**Hypothetically**

I'd go to MIT unfunded over Duke or Michigan funded.*

I would not go to MIT unfunded over Northwestern, Berkeley or Yale funded

If I don't get any funded offers, I'll likely be at Berkeley Law in the fall and trying to impress people to get into Berkeley Econ the following year.

*granted my personal and financial situation doesn't alter drastically in the next few months

I am going to take the minority position. If you are careful in picking your safety schools so that their strongest fields match your interests,

then it usually makes sense to take the funded offer at the lower ranked school.

Regarding placements, most of the advantage of going to a higher ranked school lies at the top of the distribution. The star of the class usually does no better than a lateral move. If you are unfunded, you are probably not going to be the star of the class. The difference in placements in the middle of the class is smaller, and controlling for the fact that you should be closer to the top at the lower ranked program, I think the expected difference in placements is small.

Moving to a new city and then failing out after a year doesn't seem like fun. Being tagged with $30K in debt probably makes it much worse. If you are unfunded, then it is rational to take that as a signal that you are more likely to fail out than the average student. This should be part of the decision.

If you are unfunded, then it is rational to take that as a signal that you are more likely to fail out than the average student. This should be part of the decision.

Only if there is perfect information in funding decisions. If you went to a low-prestige undergrad and are as smart as von Neumann, there is still a seriously high chance of being unfunded.

I am going to take the minority position. If you are careful in picking your safety schools so that their strongest fields match your interests, then it usually makes sense to take the funded offer at the lower ranked school.

This captures my views nicely.

Also, there is a ton of uncertainty about "next year"s in general, and this upcoming next year in particular, so it seems crazy not to sign a funded contract. Who knows whether TA- and RA-ships will be as available next year? Related: if your profile isn't good enough for funding at a school this year, why do you assume it will be so next year?

AREStudentHopeful

If you are careful in picking your safety schools so that their strongest fields match your interests, then it usually makes sense to take the funded offer at the lower ranked school.

I picked some (not all) of my safety schools on the criteria that they offer a PhD Econ program that have professors with similar interests AND that the university offer a PhD in Social Psychology for my girlfriend. A bit unrelated, but I very much need to go to the same school as her given that we already had to go through 4+ years of different undergrads. With a more serious commitment brewing I don't think we can take another 5+ years apart. That aside, I agree that I'd go for the marginally lower schools in a heart beat that offer funding.

if your profile isn't good enough for funding at a school this year, why do you assume it will be so next year?

I feel that my profile is good enough for funding at some of the schools that I applied to, though in the back of my mind of course I'd prefer my top choices, even with the prospect of an unfunded first year :(

I would also probably very heavily consider if the higher ranked program is the kind that accepts more students than they intend to pass, or more generally, how likely it is for students admitted without funding for the first year to get funding in later years .

Hopefully these types of stats are presented by their departments. I know some take a bit of digging, then again there are other institutions that keep such information away from the public eye. A slew of variables to consider, gotta hope that the choice isn't astronomically mind boggling come D-Day.

YoungEconomist

Onemoreecon.

I picked some (not all) of my safety schools on the criteria that they offer a PhD Econ program that have professors with similar interests AND that the university offer a PhD in Social Psychology for my girlfriend.

If you two had a child, it seems it would be me. Strangely enough, we only have two overlapping places (and on opposite ends of the country).

I picked some (not all) of my safety schools on the criteria that they offer a PhD Econ program that have professors with similar interests AND that the university offer a PhD in Social Psychology for my girlfriend. .

I totally hear you there but with law schools not PhD in Psych

same here but w.r.t. to medical residencies. California schools became a no-go.

Chicunomics

I'm not sure what I'd do, but I definitely think $30,000 is optimistic. I remember MIT said that first year (with living expenses) was like $68,000, but that strikes me as a bit high. I think in the range of $50-60,000 is about right...and I'm not sure I'd be willing to take out loans for that kind of money.

Let me point out that the standard unfunded offer at MIT is for 2 years sans funding, so double whatever estimate you want to make of your annual costs with them...Jeeves, yeah, definitely come to NU if that happens ;)

MathMathMath

I would be willing to do 1 year without funding, but only if there was an explicit guarantee that all students who passed the 1st year were offered funding for the 2nd year. I'd also have to see evidence that the majority of students passed the 1st year.

I don't think being unfunded necessarily means you will be near the bottom. It could mean that you went to a less prestigeous undergrad (maybe for financial reasons), you are from a little-known foreign university, you didn't get to know your LOR writers well enough or your LOR writters just didn't know how to write a recommendation properly, etc. I'm sure that the people who are funded are better on average than the people who aren't, but there are probably a lot of exceptions.

Canuckonomist

I would be willing to do 1 year without funding, but only if there was an explicit guarantee that all students who passed the 1st year were offered funding for the 2nd year. I'd also have to see evidence that the majority of students passed the 1st year.  

That's the Berkeley modus.

I assume I'm in the minority camp that would take the funded offer at the lower ranked school over an unfunded offer elsewhere. Given the tight range of the schools I've applied to, I don't see it as an issue. For my career goals, any school on my list will do it. I'd definitely take Rochester funded over Chicago unfunded, but that's just me.

I am in the same boat I will most likely take my highest ranked funded offer. So if i get unfunded at penn or wisc but funded further down like Duke, UVA or BC i would probably take that. Because it really says that you are not in there top part of the incoming class. You really don't want to be on the bottom of your graduating class expecially if there are others that are studying the same kinds of things.

You really don't want to be on the bottom of your graduating class expecially if there are others that are studying the same kinds of things.

Is that really true though? I hear a lot of people advancing this point, but I've never seen some hard proof. Is it really better to be the star in [insert favorite 30-50] department than pulling the end of [insert your favorite TOP10 department] graduation class? Not only you would have survived a TOP10 Econ program( which iis a signal in itself) but you would have had an invaluable opportunity to mingle with important people for 4-5 years. Remember what's most important in getting you to Grad school - LoRs. I bet you your personal connections are hugely (if not the most) important on the job market as well.

And if the above is true and low success at TOP10 trumps high success at 30-50, then where's the line? What about TOP15 and 30-40 ? TOP20 and 25-35 ? Also are we talking rankings in one area or on the overall? What happens if you choose a department heavilly loaded in one area, but then you end up doing something different?

This would certainly be a topic of great interest to a lot of us here in the forum in the coming months. If somebody has some good thoughts/evidence, this could really prove to be a great distraction from all the anxiety of next week.

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Is it a bad idea to do a PhD without funding?

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I am currently debating whether to leave my PhD program- any advice?

TL;DR : Young graduate student in his first year of a PhD program who has lost a passion for the academic world. Seriously considering quitting but don't know what to do. Science background.

My background I'm 21-25, with a Science background, B.Sc in Physics. Took a year off between Undergrad and Grad school and worked full time as a research scientist. Theoretical background (most of my work has consisted of modelling). Strong quantitative and computer skills. Excel in presentation/project focused environments.

General Information I am currently finishing the second semester of my first year in a PhD program at a top tier US school in an engineering program. I have a full scholarship that pays for all of my tuition and a living stipend (typical graduate student stipend ~$1800 a month after taxes, so quite enough to live off of). I'm not a US citizen (from Canada), so I'm here on a student VISA, so if I decide to stop I have 2 weeks to leave the country. I cannot hold any other employment in the US while here on my VISA. My PhD consists of ~1.5 years of combined coursework and research, followed by a qualifier at the end of that period (research based), then into your thesis (doesn't have to be related to what your qualifier research was on).

Current Academic Situation I came first semester ready to start a new life...(first time moving away from home- did my undergrad where I was born). I did very well first semester (3.9/4.0 GPA) and research was on track (mostly lit. review). By the end of first semester however, I noticed that I was losing interest very quickly in both my coursework and research - it started to become very hard to get myself through to work on a daily basis. Went home Christmas break for a few weeks and came back to start my second semester and immediately noticed a big change. I started to struggle in my classes and fall behind on research. It wasn't that the material was too difficult, I just had no motivation to do it. No excuses here - just didn't really want to do it so I didn't. I reached the end of the semester and realized just how far behind I was. I am likely going to hit ~C average this semester (A last) and am drastically behind on research. I had weekly-biweekly meetings with my supervisor all semester, but I sort of hid just how bad things were going. Had a long meeting last week where I basically came clean on everything (said I was struggling in classes, behind on research) and the supervisor was very supportive. The supervisor believed in my potential and suggested I speak to a school counsellor and emphasized that this kind of thing was common for doctoral students.

Personal situation/feelings I come from a family where both my parents have PhDs. Although my parents have always been supportive and open to my life, I feel as though they would be very disappointed if I quit and this pressure is very real to me. I have tried to have the conversation with them and their attitude is mostly: "just put your head down and work through it, it's just a phase". Quite frankly most people seem to think it's a "phase" when I tell them. Outside of school my life is great. I'm not unhappy or depressed, I have hobbies, friends, I work out - it's just school that makes me feel this way. I just don't like the academic world at all any more. I HATE classes (always have) and where in the past research has been the saving grace keeping me interested in school, it now is losing a lot of it's appeal.

Basically, I feel no passion or drive for what I am doing any more. This for me is a huge problem. I'm not the kind of person who lacks passion in life. Quite the opposite in fact. Right now I have no such drive for school. I have a long term long distance relationship with someone from home that is incredibly happy and stable. They visited here many times since I moved and we are doing great. I would be lying if I said it wasn't a factor in me wanting to quit. (Having my partner move here is a lot more complicated). The relationship has been incredibly supportive and is very aware of my current situation and has maintained a very neutral stance, trying to play devils advocate wherever possible and trying to make sure it doesn't influence the decision. I should state that I am pretty sure if I had to choose between school and the relationship, I would choose the relationship immediately with no regrets.

I have just reached a point where I find myself doing just about anything else but school work. I'll get groceries, clean the apartment, watch TV etc... before doing any work. I'm trying to stick around for a couple of months for the summer (to see if not having classes changes anything) but since talking to my supervisor I'm already having doubts about even that. At this point, I feel like moving home and getting any job would make me happier than what I am doing.

Financial situation I have a few thousand dollars in the bank (enough to get me home /move out etc...) and zero debt. If I move back home, I can likely live with my parents for the first month to get back, then I'd be looking for a job and moving in with my partner. I realize having no debt puts me ahead of a lot of people and I'm not particularly concerned about the situation financially - I'm very lucky to have what I have and am aware of this.

So what's the deal? I know I have this amazing opportunity. I'm at a top tier school on a full scholarship. I wake up every day and get to work with the top minds in my field doing important research. I'm doing something a very small % of the population ever gets a chance at and yet still I have no motivation to do it. I'm not sure if I'm doing it for me any more, or I'm doing it so I don't let down other people in my life. My parents, mentors, friends, all the people who keep telling me how amazing this opportunity is. The more I look back, the more I realize that Grad school was what I did because I basically just didn't have another plan.

What would I like to do I'd love to find a job. I don't need to make a lot of money to be happy - I live off of 22k a year right now and am perfectly comfortable. Money isn't a major motivator for me. Working in the financial sector, doing quantitative risk analysis, banking, DoD, just about anything sounds more appealing than school to me. I know I'm smart and I've got a strong quantitative background combined with very good personal skills. I'm great with people and one of the things I HATE about the academic world is how under-used that part of my skill set feels.

I have no idea what to do. I want to quit, but I haven't. Maybe I shouldn't? I've been looking into options, but quite frankly I'd much prefer to have some kind of plan before quitting - at the very least this pays my living right now. I'd love advice from anyone. Someone who's been in this situation, someone who hasn't It doesn't matter.

I know that what I am doing does not make me happy. But I don't know what will. Please help.

Update two years later

I chose to leave school, and came home. My relationship fell apart but I found a decent job working for a tech startup and did that for about 1.5 years - I saved some money and took some time off and now I'm doing full time analytics consulting work for a website - It's working out well so far and I enjoy the freedom of it (work from home) etc. Though I do often wonder about what would have happened if I stayed, I don't regret it.

• graduate-school

• You mentioned (multiple times) how you hated classes in general - is it the same with the research you're doing? Because if thats the case, and a change of the area of research wouldn't affect your decision, then its certainly clear than you didn't really want Grad school. But if its just the coursework, I'll suggest that you bear it out, as its finite and not very important in the long run... –  TCSGrad May 5, 2013 at 4:29
• 1 Questions should be written so that the questions and the answers they generate are useful to a broader community. The situation you are asking about is important, but your personal details might cloud the answer. –  Ben Norris May 5, 2013 at 10:47
• 2 While the details of this question are not entirely generalizable, I think the overall situation is one a number of people are in, and so far all the answers have addressed the general situation rather than the specifics. –  Anonymous Mathematician May 5, 2013 at 17:09
• 1 I answered a similar question: How should I deal with discouragement as a graduate student? –  Theresa Liao May 7, 2013 at 22:08

15 Answers 15

Here is my general advice for graduate students who are thinking about quitting graduate school (and I'll sprinkle in some specific advice):

At one point or another, almost every graduate student wants to quit, so you're not alone . The fact that you're not alone doesn't solve any problems, but it may give you some peace of mind. The advice from your supportive advisor to seek out counseling is a very, very good one.

The decision to get a graduate degree is personal and different for everyone, but regardless it is a long-term decision that will probably have a significant effect on your future. The five or six years of your life spent doing it could open up many doors; that is not to say that other opportunities aren't worth considering. You really do have to do what is best for yourself, in the end.

Getting a PhD really does require passion (and in your case this is weaning right now). You can push through a pretty good chunk of time without it, but if you don't find the passion, it's going to be a long haul. If you were passionate and lost that, try to figure out what it was that you were passionate about before, and see if you can get back in the groove. One of my favorite Richard Feynman stories is about how he rebounded from a slump because he watched a spinning plate in the dining hall .

If you hate classes, make it a priority to finish them up quickly so you can concentrate on the research! Classes, while important, are not why you are in graduate school. A friend's advisor told his students that he would be upset if they were getting A+'s, meaning that they weren't spending enough time on research.

You can take time off from graduate school and come back later. This is hard to do (particularly if you have to leave the country), and you can't necessarily expect the same financial support when you return. But, you can do it, and if you need time off, take it. My suggestion for you if you are still on the fence about staying in grad school is to look at an internship somewhere for the summer where you are away from school and can clear your head. Then come back next semester.

All of my advice is kind of ignoring what may be your most important statement:

I want to quit, but I haven't.

If you've thought through all the reasons why you want to quit, and this is the answer, then you should take time off -- 'quit' is a harsh word, and not really a necessary one (see point 5). Your point is well taken that you shouldn't try to stick it out for anyone but yourself -- we all go through worries about disappointing others, but most people want you to be happy, and they will understand. You will almost certainly find a big weight lifted from your shoulders, and not extra pressure from those around you. Yes, having a plan before moving on is always a good idea, but I've been in a number of places in my life where I decided to do something before having a definite plan, and it all worked out in the end. Good luck!

• 14 To the contrary, I find the Feynman example misleading. I know quite a lot of people who are very passionate about some scientific stuff, but the discouragement comes from misalignment of it and topics or approaches at their PhDs. –  Piotr Migdal Jun 19, 2013 at 11:16
• 1 @PiotrMigdal what you say is 100% right. –  Nafaa Boutefer Sep 29, 2013 at 22:25
• 1 Best advise I got: Get over the stressful moment (finals, ...), perhaps wait until some break is (almost) over before thinking it though, and consider your situation calmly. –  vonbrand Feb 28, 2016 at 1:40
• Love the Feynman anecdote! –  Joshua Wolff May 21, 2020 at 3:01

Whatever you decide to do, just keep in mind that leaving a Ph.D. program because it's just not right for you does not represent any kind of failure on your part. I know plenty of people who didn't leave graduate school because they thought quitting would mean admitting that they couldn't hack it; this simply isn't true , and if your only reason for staying in school is that you don't want to disappoint your peers, parents, or advisor, then you should think long and hard about taking some time off from school and reassessing what you want to do.

Finish what you started.

I dropped out of a prestigious program 6 years ago, with much of the same reasoning:

• "The degree is just a piece of paper anyway"
• "If I want to learn things I can just learn them on my own"
• "What's the point? To spend that many years just to get a qualification to impress other people. I don't care about money, and if I want a job I can get a job now." (I was making $80/hour on contract work at the time.)
• "I'm planning on starting my own business"

But here I am, 6 years later, applying for grad school to give it another go.

Here are my reasons for going back: (I welcome people to correct me if I'm wrong about any of these!)

• Most full time employment is mindblowingly dull. As a student you don't fully appreciate this.
• A PhD is not very different from a job in the sense that you have to show up and do some work, most of which you don't necessarily want to do. The difference is, with a PhD you get something at the end, but with a job there is just endless tedium. Also with a graduate degree you get to use your brain a bit more.
• Your job prospects will be severely diminished, and your salary will be lower. It is fairly difficult to get a good research job without a graduate degree, and most opportunities outside of grunt work will be closed to you.
• In academia, you're used to working with smart people and having intelligent discussions, etc. If you leave and enter typical workforce, that goes away. There will always be a significant gap in academic potential between you and your colleagues and this will bother you because it means you are not hitting your potential and are effectively being under-utilized and under-paid.
• Feeling underutilized and unchallenged is very very bad. You will hate your job and therefore hate your life, and it all goes downhill from there..
• Everybody wants money. Most people that want money really badly, have at some point in their lives said "Nah, I don't care about money, money doesn't make you happy." Being broke doesn't make you happy either.
• The fact that you quit will forever haunt you. No amount of "Bill gates dropped out too" or "I'm too independent to need this" will make you feel better when you see your former classmates graduate with PhDs while you have to live with the fact that you started but gave up.
• In the workforce it doesn't always matter how smart you are. Most places I've interviewed have trouble hiding how impressed they were, and several have told me directly that I'm the best candidate they've ever seen. I always breezed through the most difficult interview questions and I've gotten offers from Google, Facebook, Amazon, Goldman Sachs, etc. BUT at the end of the day all of the jobs they offered were boring menial tasks. You could argue that it's possible to start with a menial job and then work your way up, but as I mentioned before, a PhD is also a job, why not just finish that?

Also, regarding your note on quantitative finance, please be very aware that the world of quantitative finance is very competitive and most places won't consider you if you don't have a PhD. I know because I tried several times to get a job doing quant work, but every firm I spoke with only offered back-end jobs doing menial SQL work. Your mileage may vary, but be warned that most people don't care about how good you think your quantitative skills are. (One fairly famous hedge fund manager told me very directly "everyone thinks they're going to be great at a new skill, so why would anyone risk their money on an unknown, unproven entity?".)

• 1 I just noticed this was asked in May 2013 and not May 2014, oops! Ah well. –  CaptainCodeman Jun 5, 2014 at 14:28
• 3 I concur, the possibility of being underutilized and unchallenged in typical workplace is one major reason for me to strive to stay in academia. Working at big names like "Google, Facebook, Amazon, Goldman Sachs, etc." also boils down to boring menial tasks? Can you please elaborate on this? I don't have any industrial experience. –  sinoTrinity Jul 2, 2014 at 3:46
• 8 @sinoTrinity What I did not know when I left uni, was that there is a huge division in the real world between "developers that come up with ideas that improve the business", (aka "researchers") and "developers that should do as they're told" (aka "programmers", "SQL developers", "engineers", ...) Generally speaking, most software jobs fall into the second category. e.g. I got a job at Goldman Sachs, and I thought I would be working on financial models, but it turned out they wanted me to write programs to draw bar charts showing their profit. Same with Google, they just wanted a mobile dev. –  CaptainCodeman Jul 2, 2014 at 7:13
• 1 ok, but don't you acknowledge that you could have found a different team in Google that does something more interesting, or at Goldman. For example, you could have been doing risk analysis at Sachs or Search optmization at Google with a Masters. –  codekitty Aug 10, 2015 at 18:55
• One thing I do want to add, however, is that getting a PhD in Japan and Korea is restrictive for prospects whereas not having a degree is not. (Just a point to consider for potential readers from those countries) –  virmaior Sep 12, 2015 at 8:14

I'm surprised that both the question and the existing answers talk little about what used to motivate you to do research. You wrote, "where in the past research has been the saving grace keeping me interested in school, it now is losing a lot of its appeal". So what was that appeal, and how did it get lost?

Here are some possible answers, from my own experience; I'm sure there may be others in your case.

Did you get disillusioned about your field of research? Perhaps in the beginning you thought that if problems in this field were solved it would make a difference in the world, and now it seems that the big problems can't be solved and solving the small problems won't make a big difference?

Did you get disillusioned about academia? Did you have experiences that changed your view of academia? Did you come in the pursuit of truth and found that a lot of it is about the pursuit of publications?

Did you get disillusioned about your own abilities? Perhaps you were used to often being the best at what you were doing, and now you're surrounded by more smart people and your abilities seem less exceptional (and thus less motivating) in comparison?

Or perhaps your motivation had always been to please your parents and now that's not enough anymore?

I think having a clear understanding of what used to motivate you and why it stopped motivating you is a necessary and sufficient basis for the decision you're trying to make. If you lost interest in this particular field, you might have to look for a new field. If you lost the motivation that comes from a strong belief in your exceptional abilities, you might have to learn to enjoy being among the best and not necessarily the best. If your view of academia changed, you might try to find a place where academia is more how you'd like it to be, or if there doesn't seem to be one, perhaps academia isn't the right place for you. If you were only doing it for your parents, perhaps you should just leave. And if you lost interest because it turned out to be harder than you expected, then perhaps you should indeed "just put your head down and work through it, it's just a phase".

I think the key to sorting this out for yourself is to keep an open mind about your own motivations. Some of them may have been very pure and just got lost along the way and perhaps you can tap into them again; some of them may not seem so desirable now that you take a new look at them, and you may be glad not to have them anymore; but whatever they are, what's important is that you're honest about them to yourself and figure out how and why they changed, and that might allow you to see where they're leading you and whether staying or leaving is more in line with what's important to you now.

• 2 I like this post a lot because it clearly states the things almost everyone gets disillusioned about during a PhD: academia, your research topic, and your own potential. Losing faith in only one would be enough to affect you emotionally, but it's rarely just one. Accepting that both reaching your limits and the emotional journey (especially the negative emotions) are part of the program helps to stay positive. –  FvD Aug 2, 2018 at 7:19

You are not alone.

Most graduate students are in their 20’s. Many have boy/girl friends and are away from their partners while in school. Many graduate students are international. They go abroad to study. They are away from their home countries. They study in a different environment/culture. They may have language problems. Fortunately, your situation is not that bad. Many graduate students go to graduate school as a family tradition. Their parents/relatives are academics. They were raised to be academics.

Most (if not all) graduate students have trouble with their course/research works in school one time or another. Many graduate students lose their interests in the school. Some quit. Some stay.

Your long post seems to suggest to me that you mixed your personal life with the graduate school life. We are human. We have emotions. We let our personal life interfere with other aspects of our life sometimes. We know we should not let it happen. But, it happens.

You did well in the first semester. Everything changed in the second one. Something happened. No one knows what happened except you. In other words, you are the only one who knows the answer.

I would suggest you to take a break, long or short, to figure out what you really want to do. Then, make your own decision.

There are good answers and commentaries here. I will not repeat them. I would emphasize something very important, your future is yours.

• 3 We know we should not let it happen — Huh? Why not? –  JeffE May 7, 2013 at 6:41
• 6 @JeffE Sometimes, personal life would jeopardize the professional life. That’s what I mean. I am actually a victim. I gave up my academic life for personal reasons. I always regret it. Too late to change that. I try not to mention it in the answer because it’s too personal. –  Nobody May 7, 2013 at 6:53

PhDs are not for everyone. That's why most top-tier schools have about a 50% retention rate, some closer to 25-30%. You need to discover what makes you passionate, and it might not be what a PhD will get you.

I have a friend who is currently getting his Bachelor's degree. His father is a rocket scientist for NASA, so naturally he went into the Physics program. It took only a couple semesters of C's and D's for him to realize Physics isn't for him, so he switched to Computer Science. Then he realized he hates Math, so he wanted to switch majors again.

All this time, though, he has had a creative outlet. He makes things, sometimes out of leather, sometimes out of steel; the other day he came to class with a clay pot he'd just finished. Toward the end of this last semester he went through with changing his major one last time. He already has too many CS credits to give up on that major altogether, but he's dropping the Math minor that comes de facto and is picking up an Art minor instead.

I've never seen him happier than he is now. He found what he's passionate about, and it's not what his father did. You have to discover your passion. And it sounds like the job you had back home is just that.

If you don't feel any passion or motivation after the second semester, I'd say you have to really take a hard look at if graduate school is something for you as you'd still have a few years to go. If you should quit or not firstly depends on what you want. You need to try and find out why you lost your passion. Was it there first, and did something cause it to leave? Where you ambivalent about graduate school, and now you found out it was not for you?

Please do not stay just because you might disappoint others, live is just too short for that.

Given the glut of PhD's I would suggest that you get a real job. A PhD is worth only if you are really interested in doing research otherwise you'll waste 4-5 years (then another 3-4 years doing a postdoc). Faculty positions are few and far between and then you'll have to worry about getting funds/tenure. So unless you're highly motivated by research/academia you'll mostly be miserable. In the industry a PhD doesn't make much more then a Masters and significantly less than a MBA, so there is no financial justification. Also there is a very good chance that you'll be working on things which don't even require a PhD. Some are lucky to find a good research environment but not everyone.

On the flip side if you do quit now then at some point you'll regret not getting a PhD. So think about what you want to do in life (besides having and providing for your children). A (PhD) degree is just a means to an end. People sometimes get emotional about it but they should not. Talk to your parents and I am sure they'll understand.

• 3 "A PhD is worth only if you are really interested in doing research" -- citation needed . Google, for instance, hires many PhDs and most of their time is spent in non-research work . –  Chris Gregg May 6, 2013 at 12:43
• 5 @ChrisGregg Yes, but Google would have hired many of those same people with only master's or even bachelor's degrees. –  JeffE May 6, 2013 at 12:55
• 7 Google gets PhDs for pretty much the same money as those with MS. I dont know of any firm where entry level PhDs are being paid 1.5x or more than those with MS or even BS. –  user7021 May 6, 2013 at 14:25
• 1 @user7021 Yes, there is one. It is called Renaissance technologies. –  user774025 Nov 2, 2013 at 8:21

I know how you feel because even as an undergraduate, I once packed my bags. But a friend prevailed on me and I'm still thankful for not quitting. Consider the following:

If you start a count down to finish date and get really excited about seeing the day approach, you'll know time passes really quickly.

Our emotions/feeling/circumstances are temporary/passing but our achievements (good or bad) are permanent.

Creative/innovative people (like you) get tired of routine. If you take interest in something around you that requires you to learn something challenging (say music) or something alien to you, your PhD vital signs may be positively influence.

I am not an expert at these things but I know that when I get tired of routine... I stimulate my creativity somewhere else... Not for the gain but for the challenge.

Good luck man...

First and foremost, you have to look out for you, and only you. By this, I mean your well-being, your happiness and your own future.

As many have said, rather than quit at this stage, take some time out from the study. If I may suggest some things to do in your hiatus - volunteer work, teaching in a high school, perhaps try something completely different.

You are definitely not alone - I am a PhD student and have found myself in the exact some situation, took some time - concentrated on my job (teaching), travelled, lived overseas, even did some acting. I felt rejuvenated and ready to tackle the project. In my case, I returned to study. But, all situations are very different - you have to give yourself some time and space to work out what it is you want.

I read your post and from what I can see you don't sound like you enjoy your PhD or academic life in general. I personally did not find the reason why your situation became so hard. Perhaps you don't feel ok with the fact that your girlfriend is at home and you have to be somewhere else. Perhaps you you don't find the project entertaining. I'd say it might be the research itself that does not motivate you. One thing I am certain about is that you have to feel passion for doing research. You need to be determined and driven. Otherwise, it's easy to lose motivation.

You may need to ask yourself if you really need to stay where you are! PhD is for those who plan to be professional researchers. It's only counts if you plan to stay at any university. Not only will this have to be your everyday job, you will also have to be the person who proposes many new projects and be a leader for others. If don't see yourself in this roll, then it's probably better if you consider quitting. It's nothing wrong with quitting PhD. Besides, you can still begin a PhD somewhere else. You don't need to stick to the one you don't enjoy.

I can tell you that I met many people in my office. Everyone of them had their sort of crisis and this seems quite natural stage in the whole process. The research is also not a usual job and can be frustrating. Things always go wrong. Only determination, enjoyment, and passion make people stay and continue their PhDs.

As some of the others already said, It's nothing wrong when you quit PhD. Taking a longer break, coming home for couple of months, calming down may help you realise and understand a lot of things which are difficult to spot when you under pressure.

• "PhD is for those who plan to be professional researchers" <- Not necessarily; there are other valid reasons. But you do need a good reason to work on whatever research you're working on - or you're unlikely to persevere. Don't work on Ph.D. research out of some kind of "academic inertia", because of your good grades/positive experience as an undergrad. –  einpoklum Nov 17, 2020 at 13:14

It seems to me like the fundamental question here is that of whether or not your current feelings are part of a typical grad student "phase" or indicative of misaligned life goals, priorities, etc. on a much deeper level. Ultimately, a question you'll have to answer on your own and most likely by trusting your gut and intuition.

There are many, many reasons why you might be feeling the way you do now. From your description it's clear that you started the PhD process knowing you were accepting less than ideal conditions in some areas of your life with the understanding that these would be offset by other benefits. You might be more or less ambivalent about some of those benefits now that you're in the process, and the tradeoffs and benefits would certainly change if you were to switch sides and leave the program.

I would suggest assuming, for the time being, that one-year-ago you made a well educated calculation of the costs-benefits of the PhD program, in particular with a time horizon greater than 5 years.

Staying in the program then means trusting in the vision of one-year-ago you in that the long-term benefits to your life outweigh the immediate suffering (including the less than ideal use of your skills and the momentary loss of passion). On the other hand, your valuation of the tradeoffs and benefits of the PhD may have changed more than you expected, in particular with respect to your relationship or your connection to the research area.

The way to know this, in short, is to trust yourself. If your current path is just wrong for you -- if you feel you're compromising some fundamental part of yourself -- then trust that feeling. Otherwise, trust your prior vision: accept that your feelings are part of the PhD journey and trust that you'll find your passion again soon (when you stop putting pressure on yourself to find it).

One last thought that might really be the crux of the issue is that getting a PhD is a highly individualistic and very lonely experience. Richard Butterworth has a talk that really drove this home in which he says:

A PhD, by its very nature, is a very individualistic venture. ... The next big surprise for people who are starting PhDs after an undergraduate degree is just how excrutiatingly lonely a PhD is.

Your issues are real and I do not want to discount them in anyway.

In my view, you are in a privileged position and if you can make the most of it, then it would be not be a loss (as you tend to describe your experience now).

Here is a simple test: think of where you want to be in (say) five years from now? If you want to be in a place which requires a PhD, then start working on it now, other wise get out.

I know this is simplistic but it works when the issues are complicated and there are no easy solutions. At least in this way, you will make an informed decision and will not have the guilt later on!

Just suck it in and get it!

After you pass all the formal requirements, you will have a mini-tenure for 3/4/5 years (depending on the Dept you are in). I was thinking to quit first two years but now (in the mini-tenure period) I'm enjoying my life and research (from 9 to 5 only).

Try it, if you don't like it, you can always quit.

See if you can get a Master's in your second year, so that your graduate studies are not completely wasted. This is but too common in doctoral programs that they let students who are admitted to doctoral programs without being the "doctorate material" to finish the required number of courses, take the qualifier as the bottom line as far as qualification goes, and let you off with a Master's degree. They don't like that, but that's likely flight overbooking: you know that some people are not going to make it. Discuss this with your adviser.

For what I see on the earnings curves, there's a notable jump at 4 years of college/getting a Bachelor's degree, where the average earnings jump up by may be 15% from "Some college" to "BA degree" category. After that, the incomes are pretty flat, with a very modest 2 or so % return per year of education. So you ain't losing much in income, but an unfinished degree puts a big "L" across your forehead. I mean, if you drop out and found a Google or a Facebook, that's fine, but the probability of that happening is about 1e-6. (You don't know how funny that 20k figure is going to look like when your new wife asks you: "As I am expecting a baby, we need a bigger house... and also please open the college saving account for our baby", so your bold statements about income are totally out of line with real life. Or at least the life you will have in 10 years time.) The engineers that I taught seem to be starting off at $40-50Kpa, and I see no reason why a guy with a decent quant background should be making less than that.

• 11 who are admitted to doctoral programs without being the "doctorate material" — ...or decide for some other reason not to complete the PhD program. Your framing strongly suggests that everyone who drops out of their PhD program just aren't good enough; in my experience, this isn't even true as a first approximation. –  JeffE May 6, 2013 at 22:39
• 11 an unfinished degree puts a big "L" across your forehead — Oh, come on. Seriously? –  JeffE May 6, 2013 at 22:40
• 13 "an unfinished degree puts a big "L" across your forehead" "I have to say I don't know very many people who dropped out of a Ph.D. program." You probably do, they just choose not to be friends with you –  Amy May 7, 2013 at 4:29
• 4 I also don't understand why an unfinished degree looks like a big "L". I was accepted into a program at a top tier school, which obviously means I was qualified to be there (full scholarship as well). I am doing well in my program despite my sentiments. Why would an employer frown upon me saying something like "Well, I went to do my PhD and I did very well, but I very quickly realized I didn't have passion for my research anymore and the doctorate did not feel like a good fit. Now I am searching for employment opportunities such as this one where I feel my skills and passion will be utilized" –  user7007 May 7, 2013 at 6:13
• 14 @StasK I think your views on the matter are a little harsh (and in a way contribute to the fear people have of leaving a Ph.D program). A Ph.D is not the culmination of your academic career. It's a career choice , and like any choice is right for some and not for others. People are tempted to go for a Ph.D because it looks like "more school", but it takes time to realize that it's a choice of career and that it might not even be the right one. –  Suresh May 7, 2013 at 16:17

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Gen Z wants no part of Biden's unceasing support of Israel as civilian deaths in Gaza mount

A whole generation is coming of age, and some of us are questioning the years of funding the u.s. has sent to israel..

Cameron Jones is a sophomore at Columbia University. He has family in Israel and has visited more than once, but he’s also a member of the college’s chapter of Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP) and a vocal opponent of Israel’s attacks on Gaza.

His family abroad doesn't know about the organizing he's done, nor do they know that he is one of the plaintiffs in a lawsuit against Columbia after the JVP chapter was suspended in November . 

Since Hamas strikes prompted Israel to begin attacking Gaza on Oct. 7, Jones and other students – mostly queer people, people of color and women – have been organizing to demand Columbia divest from companies and institutions that support Israel.

“I feel as though I have more of a duty to stand up against what is wrong,” Jones told me.

Almost 33,000 Palestinians have died in the past six months. The images and information coming out of the Gaza Strip, like the Israeli airstrike that killed seven aid workers last week, have been difficult to see.

Calling for an end to the conflict is important to the nation’s youngest voters, and President Joe Biden needs to take a firm stance on the issue ahead of the election. He is one of the most powerful men in the world; what he says can impact how Israel is seen by its peers. If the president called for a cease-fire, even a short-term one, it would likely be taken seriously by Israel. Biden has come out against the dangers that civilians in the region are facing, but it's not enough.

Polls show Gen Z supports Palestine

If your social media feed is anything like mine, you’ve seen documentation of the catastrophe – of buildings after bombings, families in refugee camps and glimpses into the lives of people who have died.

The cause has even reached dating apps, where users are specifying their stances on Gaza or simply including the Palestinian flag in their bios.

This social media campaign is probably why so many young voters are supporting Palestinians compared with previous flare-ups in the region.

In a New York Times/Siena poll from December, 55% of respondents ages 18-29 oppose the United States sending more aid to Israel. Another poll from Quinnipiac University in November found that 52% of voters under 35 are more sympathetic to the Palestinians.

However, not everyone in this demographic is on the same page. An NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist Poll conducted in October shows that 48% of millennials and Generation Z think the country should publicly support Israel, while 12% of this group think that the United States should publicly criticize Israel.

Opinion alerts: Get columns from your favorite columnists + expert analysis on top issues, delivered straight to your device through the USA TODAY app. Don't have the app? Download it for free from your app store .

A whole generation is coming of age, and some of us are questioning the years of funding our government has sent to Israel. The United States has given $130 billion worth of aid since Israel's founding after World War II.

Last year, we sent Israel $3.8 billion in military assistance. After the Hamas attacks, Biden requested an additional $14 billion for Israel.

We want to know why we are still sending money despite the horrific scenes playing out in front of us. We don’t want to be complicit in the human rights violations we are seeing on social media every day.

For some, the conflict is personal

Layla Saliba is a graduate student at Columbia University and a Palestinian American. Multiple family members of hers have died in Gaza since Oct. 7.

She and Jones said they have been the targets of harassment because of their activism on behalf of Palestinians. Both told me they've appeared on Canary Mission , a website that exposes personal information of Gaza supporters. Saliba said she had to block one Columbia professor who harassed her on X, formerly Twitter.

Saliba, who grew up wary of talking about her Palestinian background, noted that she has seen more pro-Palestinian conversation in recent months than ever before. 

“It’s the first time we’re seeing something like this on social media, on our phones, every day,” Saliba told me. “And I think the level of death and destruction we’re witnessing – I don’t think the human brain is designed to deal with that. And this is something that is being funded by our tax dollars.”

With no cease-fire in Gaza, Muslims like me struggle with guilt and rage this Ramadan

Jones, on the other hand, is one of many young Jewish Americans who have been organizing to support the Palestinian people and bring attention to the cause through acts of civil disobedience that have disrupted travel routes and daily routines.

Hundreds of young employees at Jewish organizations have signed a letter addressed to Biden and Congress demanding a cease-fire.

For Jones, the claim that criticizing Israel is antisemitic is “disheartening.” He noted that it makes it difficult to call out “actual” antisemitism in the process.

“People are going about calling ‘anti-Zionism’ antisemitism, wearing a (traditional Palestinian scarf) kaffiyeh antisemitic,” Jones told me. “All these things that really aren't antisemitism, but they’re painting it as that.”

Even as a person without direct ties to Israel or Gaza, conversations have been fraught. It's frustrating that some people won't engage in genuine conversation about the destruction we're seeing on a regular basis. It's draining to face the reality of war as it unfolds and upsetting to know that we have contributed to that suffering.

Biden should be paying attention to all of this

Biden and his campaign staff should be taking the call to action seriously. Voters in Michigan showed their disapproval of Biden’s inaction in the region by voting “ uncommitted ” in the state’s Democratic primary. Since then, voters in other states have used the protest vote as a means of voicing their feelings on Gaza. 

Gen Z progressives are also trying to get Biden’s attention. In March, a coalition of youth movements sent a letter to the president outlining the youth agenda. It included an ask of Biden to call for a cease-fire. Gen Z for Change , one of the groups involved, has also been helping voters email their elected officials in support of a cease-fire.

Gaza is redefining the Christian vote. Biden and Trump better listen.

Recently, the president acknowledged some pro-Palestinian protesters at a rally in North Carolina, saying that they “ have a point ” and that more care is needed in Gaza. Vice President Kamala Harris is on record supporting a six-week cease-fire . Both are steps in the right direction.

On the other hand, Biden is the sitting president of a world power. When he speaks, other leaders listen. Because of this, he needs to take an active stance in support of a cease-fire in the region. It isn’t enough to have Harris deliver the message.

We just want to know why our tax dollars are supporting this and how we can do something about all of the tragedy we are seeing in real time, day in and day out, since Oct. 7. The president could ensure more votes in the fall if he takes our concerns seriously.

Follow USA TODAY elections columnist Sara Pequeño on X, formerly Twitter,  @sara__pequeno  and Facebook  facebook.com/PequenoWrites

You can read diverse opinions from our Board of Contributors and other writers on the Opinion front page , on Twitter @usatodayopinion and in our daily Opinion newsletter .

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